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Old 03-14-2013, 06:08 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
(Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, UK, US) The US and Iceland were the lowest by far. The next closest countries, Norway, Sweden and Finland exceeded the US rate by ~30% or more.
Your link shows something different. From figure 2, of 15-16 year olds who got reported getting drunk in the last month ("reporting intoxication") the US looked similar to the median of the countries. The UK, Ireland, Austria and to a lesser extent Spain were higher than the US; the rest were similar or lower.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:12 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Not exactly. You left off Denmark, which has a much higher rate of intoxication than the US (49% vs 18%), Finland, Germany, Norway and Switerland. Only 5 countries out of the other 15 had lower intoxication rates than the US (Belgium, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal, Sweden), and one of those, Sweden, was only 6% lower. I note that Germany's rate is an increase of 22% over the US', and Finland's is 16% and Norway and Switerland's are 11% . Sweden, Norway and Finland are among the European countries with a slightly lower rate of drinking overall (though still much higher than than the US').

Recent data from representative surveys provide no evidence that young Europeans drink more responsibly than their counterparts in the US.

A greater percentage of young people from all of the European countries except Iceland report drinking in the past 30 days.

A majority of the European countries included in this study have higher intoxication rates among young people than the United States and about one third of the countries have equal or lower rates to the United States; and For a majority of these European countries, a greater percentage of young people report having been intoxicated before the age of 13.


None of which has anything to do with raising kids in the city.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 03-14-2013 at 07:30 AM..
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:27 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You're cherry picking. Here is the summary:


Recent data from representative surveys provide no evidence that young Europeans drink more responsibly than their counterparts in the US.

A greater percentage of young people from all of the European countries except Iceland report drinking in the past 30 days.

A majority of the European countries included in this study have higher intoxication rates among young people than the United States and about one third of the countries have equal or lower rates to the United States; and For a majority of these European countries, a greater percentage of young people report having been intoxicated before the age of 13.
I'm not cherry picking, I never argued the first point. The second point says nothing about the amount of alcohol consumed, which was the part you quoted previously. As for the last point, check the graph your link posted. Most countries did have a high % than the US, but the difference for many was within a few %.

It's also regional. If the northern US was separated it would probably be much higher:

http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/data-stats.htm

[Adult stats, but teen use probably follows similar to adult patterns?]
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:33 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I'm not cherry picking, I never argued the first point. The second point says nothing about the amount of alcohol consumed. As for the last point, check the graph your link posted. Most countries did have a high % than the US, but the difference for many was within a few %.
I edited my post and calculated the numbers. Those differences are fairly significant in most of the countries, and you left off Denmark, whose rate of intoxication is three times that of the US at age 15, again, none of which has anything to do with drinking in "the city".

I see you edited your post, too. Binge drinking is a somewhat different topic.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
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Ahem, how do you report kids who don't get caught? Only one time did an underage friend get caught drinking... that's because he threw up on stage at the highschool band concert.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:44 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
Ahem, how do you report kids who don't get caught? Only one time did an underage friend get caught drinking... that's because he threw up on stage at the highschool band concert.
I think this was a survey, rather than a study based on arrest reports. Of course, some of them could have been lying. Health care providers know that people usually, ahem, underestimate stuff like that (aka, lie).
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I edited my post and calculated the numbers. Those differences are fairly significant in most of the countries, and you left off Denmark, whose rate of intoxication is three times that of the US at age 15, again, none of which has anything to do with drinking in "the city".
If you go back to the source, you find that "However, a combination of a small gross sample and a high school-dropout level in Denmark led to a net sample which was too small to be considered fully representative, and thereby fully comparable." so Denmark is probably a bad example.

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/attachem...summary_EN.pdf
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:59 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
If you go back to the source, you find that "However, a combination of a small gross sample and a high school-dropout level in Denmark led to a net sample which was too small to be considered fully representative, and thereby fully comparable." so Denmark is probably a bad example.

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/attachem...summary_EN.pdf
High drop out rate is pretty interesting though. Maybe b/c of all that drinking, LOL.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:01 PM
 
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I think a dense urban area is great for little kids - you can walk everywhere and there are tons of things to do (where we live anyway). Now that my son is 12, he sadly has no interest or going the zoo or the botanical gardens - he just wants to hang out with his friends. At this stage, I find the area where he goes to school (which I'd describe as semi-urban) to be the best environment for him. He can still get around very easily because the houses are very close together, but there is less traffic than where we live. Unfortunately, this area (near his school) doesn't have good public transit, so I'm not sure that as a teenager it would be the best environment.

I grew up in the suburbs and had a nice childhood but hated it as a teen. I felt very isolated and the quiet started to really stress me out for some reason. You can't help but notice that for some teen boys, the mix of affluence in the suburbs have disastrous results. Still the study really surprised me.

I would have certain expected more stress etc. with poor urban teens. For one thing, being poor in itself is a major stressor - detrimental in so many ways.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:08 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yodel View Post
I think a dense urban area is great for little kids - you can walk everywhere and there are tons of things to do (where we live anyway). Now that my son is 12, he sadly has no interest or going the zoo or the botanical gardens - he just wants to hang out with his friends. At this stage, I find the area where he goes to school (which I'd describe as semi-urban) to be the best environment for him. He can still get around very easily because the houses are very close together, but there is less traffic than where we live. Unfortunately, this area (near his school) doesn't have good public transit, so I'm not sure that as a teenager it would be the best environment.

I grew up in the suburbs and had a nice childhood but hated it as a teen. I felt very isolated and the quiet started to really stress me out for some reason. You can't help but notice that for some teen boys, the mix of affluence in the suburbs have disastrous results. Still the study really surprised me.



I would have certain expected more stress etc. with poor urban teens. For one thing, being poor in itself is a major stressor - detrimental in so many ways.
Surprise! That's what most tweens and teens want to do! The environment doesn't matter. Surely you remember this from being a kid yourself.

I think the stress study is biased. They compared apples (suburban teens) to oranges (inner-city teens).
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