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Old 02-26-2013, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 874,327 times
Reputation: 217

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
Call my opinion on something blathering if you'd like, however I've seen plenty of folks "blather" about creating more "forced social interactions" by getting people out of their cars, or other ideas which I find completely ridiculous.
That's the wrong phrase. It should be: "natural social interactions". Anything IN a car, or REQUIRING a car, would be "forced" as a far as I am concerned. (haha)

BTW, what happened to my petri dish image?
It is no big deal to me, but was that image and comment somehow inappropriate?
(If so, it seems like deleting it so quickly could be seen by some as a mite over-reactive.
But no big deal, it was a visual metaphor to reinforce a point, not vital to my argument.)

Last edited by Geologic; 02-26-2013 at 09:49 PM..
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 408,066 times
Reputation: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
If your "own little neighborhood" is a rich environment like NYC or Hong Kong, I would have to agree with that.
And as someone who lives in a less urban part of New York City, but knows a LOT of people who live in much more urban, walkable, dense parts of the city, you would be completely wrong. Even people I know who live on the Upper West Side often have to trek all over the island of Manhattan, parts of Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx and even Long Island and New Jersey. Once you get out of the comfortable walking distance radius of your apartment, you're either taking the chance that there will be adequate transit to that location (the further away from you, the likelihood drops) or you're stuck relying on someone else to drive you or taking a cab/car service, which can be really expensive for even people who don't own a car and have these expenses. Alternatively, ZipCar and similar programs provide some of the freedom of a car without the costs and hassles of parking, ownership in the densest parts of the city, however there is still some degree of planning and inconvenience that comes with this. From where I live, I can cover a huge geographic area and a much larger variety of stores in most likely less time, in fact I can even drive to midtown Manhattan in between 30-40 minutes to an hour depending on the traffic if I need to be.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 408,066 times
Reputation: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
If I visit America, I avoid renting a car. So anywhere "off the grid" (ie that you need a car to see) is "no where land" as far as I am concerned
Thats a shame that you have such a limited range of travel once you come to the United States, because you refuse to use an automobile for even such a short time. You should not expect there to be mass transit options to every conceivable point of interest in a country such as the United States, especially when its 3,793,574 square miles larger than Hong Kong.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 874,327 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
And as someone who lives in a less urban part of New York City, but knows a LOT of people who live in much more urban, walkable, dense parts of the city, you would be completely wrong. Even people I know who live on the Upper West Side often have to trek all over the island of Manhattan, parts of Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx and even Long Island and New Jersey. Once you get out of the comfortable walking distance radius of your apartment, you're either taking the chance that there will be adequate transit to that location...
I lived in Brooklyn and Manhattan for many years, and never needed or wanted a car.
I did use cabs from time-to-time and the subway almost every day.

No need for "personal transportation" (a car, or a successor to a car) as far as I could see.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 874,327 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
Thats a shame that you have such a limited range of travel once you come to the United States, because you refuse to use an automobile for even such a short time. You should not expect there to be mass transit options to every conceivable point of interest in a country such as the United States, especially when its 3,793,574 square miles larger than Hong Kong.
That's you opinion.
But I find it hard to think of anything that I would NEED to see that is "off grid".

The exception being a few close friends and family members.

I do admit that much more of America is "off grid" (in the carfree sense) than Europe or Asia is.
But who really needs it?

Last edited by Geologic; 02-26-2013 at 09:38 PM..
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 408,066 times
Reputation: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
That's the wrong phrase. It should be: "natural social interactions". Anything IN a car, or REQUIRING a car, would be "forced" as a fas as I am concerned.
The following is a matter of personal opinion and observations which I've made in the past 24 years I've spent living in New York:

Walking/Riding Transit:

* bums asking me for money
* harassment from "hip hop artists" to buy their crappy CDs
* strangers asking me irrelevant questions (as in not "hey how to I get to *place* but rather other nonsense)
* being pushed into crowded subway trains and buses to the point of being extremely uncomfortable, not good for my mild social anxiety
* street peddlers trying to sell me crap I don't want
* had my iPod stolen once (admittedly, it was probably my ignorance)
* religious preachers...ugh
* creepy people staring at me, following me
* sharing personal space with smelly, uncomfortable people

I could go on further, but I'll stop here. In my current life where I'm able to drive everywhere easily, I don't have to deal with any of these things. The above may be "natural" as you say, but they're extremely annoying to me and millions of other people, hence another reason to drive. Not to say that driving is so perfect, it has plenty of issues itself just like everything in life...but the benefits far outweigh the issues in my opinion. And I also fail to see how being in a car-centric area is "forced", nothing is realistically stopping someone from taking control of their life and moving to a more urban, walkable area if thats what they truly desire.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 874,327 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
Wow lol, you completely misunderstood what I said, who is to say in the future we won't have modes of transportation that won't use energies that harm the earth?
...
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.
Okay.
Like you, I hope we can find some technologies like that.
In fact, I have an open mind towards "Free Energy" and think it would be great if it is real.
But I would not want to Bet-my-Future on it being real - by giving up my Carfree vision, and embracing a Suburban living arrangment.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 408,066 times
Reputation: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
That's you opinion.
But I find it hard to think of anything that I would NEED to see that is "off grid".

The exception being a few close friends and family members.

I do admit that much more of America is "off grid" (in the carfree sense) that Europe of Asia is.
But who really needs it?
My statement about the size comparison between HK and the US was not an opinion, but rather an obvious fact. If you meant the bit about being "a shame", than yes, it is my opinion. Perhaps that's just my bias for preferring to not limit my travel options because it requires a car. If there is nothing you really need thats "off the grid", or rather off limits to you since you don't want to enter car-land, thats fine. Similarly to mostly everything I need and do in my day to day life is able to nicely avoid car-inconvenient areas such as midtown Manhattan...its nice to have when I want to go out for drinks with friends, but for day to day? I'll stick to my shopping malls, strip malls and big box stores locally and a short drive away.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 874,327 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
The following is a matter of personal opinion and observations which I've made in the past 24 years I've spent living in New York:

Walking/Riding Transit:
* bums asking me for money
* harassment from "hip hop artists" to buy their crappy CDs
...
That sounds like NYC to me. It never really bothered me much.

You will find much less of that sort of "street life" in the London tubes*, and even less of it in Hong Kong. So it is not a necessary part of public transport.



*In London they try to control the pan-handling and begging, by have official areas for "buskers", and requiring the buskers to get a license. Perhaps NYC should try that?

Americans need to become less arrogant towards innovations from the rest of the world. There's lots the US can learn from those who have faced up to similar challenges long ago.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
2,610 posts, read 3,765,448 times
Reputation: 1616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
And city people are supposedly so curious, and "urbane". No desire to see the rest of the world? How parochial! (Sarc, sort of)
Bicycles are a pretty fun way to explore a region, even if you're not that young. My dad had a colleague who biked from the Western to Northern to Southern to Easternmost corners of Canada accessible by road (so Vancouver Island to Inuvik to Point Pelee to Newfoundland). It must have been a great way to see the country, obviously not realistic for most people, but if a man in his 50s can do that, I would think a good chunk of the general population should be able to do 40-100 mile bike trips with a good bike.

Cars aren't the only thing people didn't have centuries ago. They also didn't have bikes, buses, trains, planes and even their ships were pretty slow, oceanliners of 20th century crossed the Atlantic 10 times faster than the older sailing ships. Anyways, I know some people who have cars and have hardly ever left their city...
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