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Old 02-26-2013, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
389 posts, read 400,365 times
Reputation: 199

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Quote:
Originally Posted by memph View Post
Bicycles are a pretty fun way to explore a region, even if you're not that young. My dad had a colleague who biked from the Western to Northern to Southern to Easternmost corners of Canada accessible by road (so Vancouver Island to Inuvik to Point Pelee to Newfoundland). It must have been a great way to see the country, obviously not realistic for most people, but if a man in his 50s can do that, I would think a good chunk of the general population should be able to do 40-100 mile bike trips with a good bike.

Cars aren't the only thing people didn't have centuries ago. They also didn't have bikes, buses, trains, planes and even their ships were pretty slow, oceanliners of 20th century crossed the Atlantic 10 times faster than the older sailing ships. Anyways, I know some people who have cars and have hardly ever left their city...
No joke, at a hotel I stayed at in Chicago, one of the people in the lobby showed me pics bicycling from California to Chicago. That is some extreme cycling. Some people from Montreal after they left Chicago were headed to Utah to bike.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 872,207 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
My statement about the size comparison between HK and the US was not an opinion, but rather an obvious fact...mostly everything I need and do in my day to day life is able to nicely avoid car-inconvenient areas such as midtown Manhattan...its nice to have when I want to go out for drinks with friends, but for day to day? I'll stick to my shopping malls, strip malls and big box stores locally and a short drive away.
Okay.
As a Car owner, your "daily travel radius" is bigger than mine. I can live happily in my smaller radius because thanks to the density, and spatial platforms provided, it is far richer (per sf, or per sq mile) than the area around most suburbanites.

Now here comes an opinion that may offend some here:

+ Because of the smaller radius of city residents, many busineses and people who reside in the city make greater effort to make their stores and products (and their conversations!) more interesting,

+ I find suburban malls either sterile, boring, or sloppy

City street life is chaotic, but its tends to be alot more interesting that what you find in the 'Burbs. And that is why I do not mind that the car-dependent suburbs are off my grid, outside my "daily travel radius"
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,726,438 times
Reputation: 32304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
If I visit America, I avoid renting a car. So anywhere "off the grid" (ie that you need a car to see) is "no where land" as far as I am concerned
Your extreme ideology is blinding you to some marvelous opportunities. Many very worthwhile things, especially in the United States, are off the beaten track. Once in your lifetime, you really ought to visit the Grand Canyon in person. There is just nothing quite like it - it will take your breath away.

If you are at all interested in history, as I am, there are certain fantastic museums which fall into the category of off the beaten track. The National Museum of the Pacific War in Fredricksburg, Texas is one of them. It is located there because Fredricksburg is the birth place and boyhood home of Admiral Chester Nimitz. The Eisenhower Presidential Museum, Library, and Gravesite are in Abilene, Kansas, again, because that's where he was born and grew up. His family home is still there. The Truman Presidential Meseum, Library, and Gravesite are in Independence, Missouri. All three of those museums are fascinating and very well done.

I have no quarrel with anyone who chooses to live car-free. That is practical and feasible in dense urban environments, and there is nothing wrong with it. But I have a quarrel with such extreme anti-car sentiment which would ipso facto rule out any destination if using a car is necessary to reach it. That is the ultimate triumph of rigid ideology and religious fervor over all common sense.

If the wonders of nature just do not touch you personally and you are not interested in seeing the Grand Canyon (for example), well I do not wish to twist your arm beyond the recommendation I made in the first paragraph above. But using a car as being a negative litmus test? That is the height of absurdity. What would be the harm of renting one two or three times in your lifetime? Perhaps you are one of those closet car-phobics like Thunderkat finally admitted to being? (That is, you are just plain afraid and uncomfortable in a car for no rational reason, and then you grasp onto all sorts of reasons to make a virtue of your grim necessity?)
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:53 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,929,314 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Your extreme ideology is blinding you to some marvelous opportunities. Many very worthwhile things, especially in the United States, are off the beaten track. Once in your lifetime, you really ought to visit the Grand Canyon in person. There is just nothing quite like it - it will take your breath away.
One can travel to the Grand Canyon without a car (amtrak or plane + bus). Yes, it may be less convenient, but it can done.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:55 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,929,314 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
No joke, at a hotel I stayed at in Chicago, one of the people in the lobby showed me pics bicycling from California to Chicago.
How long did it take them? Did they go further than Chicago?
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 872,207 times
Reputation: 217
[quote=Escort Rider;28438745]Your extreme ideology is blinding you to some marvelous opportunities. Many very worthwhile things, especially in the United States, are off the beaten track. Once in your lifetime, you really ought to visit the Grand Canyon in person. There is just nothing quite like it - it will take your breath away.
. . .
I have no quarrel with anyone who chooses to live car-free. That is practical and feasible in dense urban environments, and there is nothing wrong with it. But I have a quarrel with such extreme anti-car sentiment which would ipso facto rule out any destination if using a car is necessary to reach it. That is the ultimate triumph of rigid ideology and religious fervor over all common sense.

...using a car as being a negative litmus test? That is the height of absurdity. What would be the harm of renting one two or three times in your lifetime?[quote]
Grand Canyon?
How did I know that someone should bring that up?
Perhaps I should have said: "The Grand Canyon is the exception that will 'prove' my personal rule."

Don't misuunderstand me: I did not mean to say there was nothing "off grid" of any interest whatsover. It might be more clear to say: If can happily sacrifice all the, because if I realy need to see any of it, I will find alternative transport, including renting a car and/or driver, if I feel I need to see it.

I don't rule out driving or renting a car.

Mainly my CORE CONCEPT is: that designing a life around a Carfree principle is a great way to design a life with a minimum amount of surprise unhappy disruptions, thanks to future rises in oil prices.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 872,207 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
One can travel to the Grand Canyon without a car (amtrak or plane + bus). Yes, it may be less convenient, but it can done.
I thought so, and may do it sometime when I am that part of the country.
I am pretty resourceful in coping the so-called "handicap" of not wanting to use a car.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,348 times
Reputation: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
Okay.
As a Car owner, your "daily travel radius" is bigger than mine. I can live happily in my smaller radius because thanks to the density, and spatial platforms provided, it is far richer (per sf, or per sq mile) than the area around most suburbanites.

Now here comes an opinion that may offend some here:

+ Because of the smaller radius of city residents, many busineses and people who reside in the city make greater effort to make their stores and products (and their conversations!) more interesting,

+ I find suburban malls either sterile, boring, or sloppy

City street life is chaotic, but its tends to be alot more interesting that what you find in the 'Burbs. And that is why I do not mind that the car-dependent suburbs are off my grid, outside my "daily travel radius"
Interesting is a matter of personal opinion as well, what you find interesting, others may find completely annoying and unappealing...just like how you have no desire to drive places. I tend to find my drives to be mostly interesting, even for mundane tasks...and I like how when I'm in the car with a friend or family member, it's our own private space and we have the freedom and isolation to discuss anything we want, no matter how personal, controversial or otherwise. I couldn't even imagine having half of the discussions I've had with people in my car while walking down the street or riding on mass transit, without people staring me down, rudely interrupting me to chime into a personal conversation or even starting trouble. I've been in situations where all three outcomes happened, so yet another reason why I like to avoid the crowds of people and stay in my car for travel. Plus day to day, it's the only real true time I can get away from everyone....and just be alone and relax...even if I'm having a relatively stressful drive somewhere, I prefer the isolation and comfort, and it's obvious that millions of other people share in that desire.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:16 PM
 
195 posts, read 235,315 times
Reputation: 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
Mainly my CORE CONCEPT is: that designing a life around a Carfree principle is a great way to design a life with a minimum amount of surprise unhappy disruptions, thanks to future rises in oil prices.
So if there were no prospect of higher oil prices would you still choose to live carfree?
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 872,207 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
... I prefer the isolation and comfort, and
it's obvious that millions of other people share in that desire.
Sure. Either:

+ They have no choice (no carfree alternative anywhere near them, that they can afford), or
+ They do not know any better, because they never properly experienced a GREAT urban environment.

I don't want to be snobbish about it, but many of my friends from HK or London have warned me about moving back to the Car-Happy and Sports-Happy USA.

"You will be bored to tears," they say. I don't think that's right, but neither do I think I can be very happy if 50% of my daily conversations turn out to be about sports teams. Can I really escape from that in the USA?
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