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Old 02-27-2013, 12:24 AM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,859,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post

(Note also how the mention the supermarket. No need to own a car, if you live in a place like this.
Why can American developers not build like this?)
They do. Check out Chicago's near north side places like the gold coast. The thing is that not everyone wants to live in an apartment or condo. Some people want to have their own garden where they can grow their own flowers/vegitables. Some people want to live near nature and that development would not attract people like that.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 872,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
No. It failed because they imposed their view of transit on everyone else. It forced everyone to use the Bus or train to get to these stores. It blocked or made less attractive to people who have no choice but to drive downtown or people who were making a quick forray downtown before going elsewhere or people visting from out of state that drove downtown.
I don't know the specifics of the place you mentioned, but if I did I am pretty certain I could find a different explanation. But you seem to lack any detail or deep knowledge in your description, so perhaps you should study the design and planning field a bit more.

Well, if you don't want listen to me. Why not listen to a genuine expert, Ian Rasmussen, about why developments near transport have failed in many places across the US:

Show 123: Transit: Jan. 17, 2013

MP3: Show 123: Transit (69 MB) : http://www.strongtowns.org/storage/p...13_Transit.mp3

Ian Rasmussen joins Chuck Marohn to talk about transit systems and how they should be viewed as the Suburban Experiment continues to wind down.

/source: http://www.strongtowns.org/strong-to...3-transit.html

The main reason is that they either lack sufficient density, or give the best ground over to parking - a big mistake.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 872,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
They do. Check out Chicago's near north side places like the gold coast. The thing is that not everyone wants to live in an apartment or condo. Some people want to have their own garden where they can grow their own flowers/vegitables. Some people want to live near nature and that development would not attract people like that.
And those people are the ones that will have to sacrifice transport convenience (into the city) for their greater privacy.

The problem in the US is that there is hardly any choice at all, but the car dependent choice. In London, people either pay big money for their homes with gardens, or suffer a long commute. But there are PLENTY of alternatives involving living in flats next to transport. Hurray for choice! - on both sides of this debate !
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 872,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
They do. Check out Chicago's near north side places like the gold coast. The thing is that not everyone wants to live in an apartment or condo.

Gold Coast?
I know that place - isolated and off on its own. Not easy to walk there from transport.
They do much better in London and HK.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:42 AM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,859,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
I don't know the specifics of the place you mentioned, but if I did I am pretty certain I could find a different explanation. But you seem to lack any detail or deep knowledge in your description, so perhaps you should study the design and planning field a bit more.

Well, if you don't want listen to me. Why not listen to a genuine expert, Ian Rasmussen, about why developments near transport have failed in many places across the US:

xx

The main reason is that they either lack sufficient density, or give the best ground over to parking - a big mistake.
In the case of state street became a bus only street. There is already a subway under it and the elevated tracks near or on it. The buses made the area pedestrian unfriendly as you needed to watch out for them when you crossed the street.

The street itself is wide and there is no way to move the stores from across the street closer to each other without tearing down some of the best architecture in the city some of which has been standing for a century. It just made the area inconvenient to everyone who drives as well as pedestrians.

As for why they did it, the rise of the shopping mall in the burbs in the 70ies and 80ies caused state street to lose business. I used to live on the west side and I could go to north riverside mall in the same time it would have taken to drive downtown and parked there for free vs. need to take a bus or train downtown to shop. It was an attempt to revitalize State Street that failed.

In the case of state street no parking is allowed on the street (and still true), no parking lots blocking access to anything either. It takes more than density and lack of cars to make a successful pedestrian mall.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
Gold Coast?
I know that place - isolated and off on its own. Not easy to walk there from transport.
They do much better in London and HK.
Ah the State Street subway runs through the area and the area also has busses. It is one of the few areas in town where owning a car would be a bad idea due to the amount of public transit and the cost of parking.
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Old 02-27-2013, 02:53 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 872,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Ah the State Street subway runs through the area and the area also has busses. It is one of the few areas in town where owning a car would be a bad idea due to the amount of public transit and the cost of parking.
Apologies - I checked the Map. And I had "my memories crossed"
I believe I was recalling the Condos up on Lake Shore Drive, not Gold Coast

If I recall, the LSD condos are thought to be "safer"/ and a more residential area than the Gold Coast ones.
Have I remembered correctly this time?

I did actually live for a time in a place called Presidential Towers for a while, and it never felt like I was anywhere near the heart of the city. And I think the area around GC is pretty quiet at night (and on weekends), and is really a sort of residential bedroom area for those who work in the downtown financial district. Apologies if my memory is still foggy.
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Old 02-27-2013, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
THE POINT IS...
There are not enough Walkable Carfree areas in the USA to accomodate the pent-up demand that will materialise with the next jump in Oil Prices.

SPORTS:
Many people who travel a great deal lose an affiliation with any particular sports team, and are soon bored by such conversations. If you knew more people outside the US, you would find they are not so interested in "your" sports teams, and my prefer to talk of "theirs" (cf European Football Clubs). But the real internationalists move beyond trivial sports chatter. That's what I have found anyway.

Do you know what the most popular sports teams in the world are?
There are plenty of existing and newer "walkable" areas in the United States, none of them will likely be car free anytime soon, if ever. "Car light" seems more popular around here, where people who choose to live there don't need their car for everything, but can still somewhat easily own one or use Zipcar to travel beyond their little cocoon. Perhaps if such a pent up demand is really there, then this trend of building places such as Newport in Jersey City will continue. Additionally, maybe you could work towards the creation of a new or improved walkable neighborhood in a city that you like here in the states, instead of tirelessly asking to blindly believe your viewpoint because of what some "expert" named Ian Rasmussen says, or because you think everybody should believe in what you say, and disregard their freedom of choice, property ownership and transportation choice (using their cars).

As far as sports, I'm not going to go any further about that other than if you don't like what people in the United States talk about with each other, don't talk to them. I'd be sure to believe that the majority of people talking about sports enjoy what they're talking about, it's certainly not trivial to them and that they would probably find (right so, in my opinion) much of what you talk about to be trivial as well.

Quote:
I always wondered why they did not DENSIFY more around those Transit stations on the METRA.
I suppose that zoning laws may have prevented it
Perhaps the areas with which these trains serve do not want the said high density development? The park-and-ride model works very well for millions of people, and I'm all for it in cities with very dense cores. Allows people to live their suburban life, and be able to work in the nearest major city without having to drive to it every day. That way, those who do choose to drive have less traffic to deal with, and those who don't want to drive into a densely populated commercial district, can just drive to the train station and take it instead: METRA, LIRR, Metro North, NJ Transit, SEPTA Regional Rail, San Diego Coaster, MARC, VRE, etc
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,062 posts, read 16,081,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
And those people are the ones that will have to sacrifice transport convenience (into the city) for their greater privacy.

The problem in the US is that there is hardly any choice at all, but the car dependent choice. In London, people either pay big money for their homes with gardens, or suffer a long commute. But there are PLENTY of alternatives involving living in flats next to transport. Hurray for choice! - on both sides of this debate !
You realize that more people get around by public transit in NYC than in London, right? And fewer people get around by private automobile in NYC than London, right? Washington DC and Boston aren't all that far behind and have nearly as many people using public transit as driving. Hurray for choice indeed.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,018 posts, read 17,737,509 times
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Default Conversations about sports teams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
Sure. Either:

+ They have no choice (no carfree alternative anywhere near them, that they can afford), or
+ They do not know any better, because they never properly experienced a GREAT urban environment.

I don't want to be snobbish about it, but many of my friends from HK or London have warned me about moving back to the Car-Happy and Sports-Happy USA.

"You will be bored to tears," they say. I don't think that's right, but neither do I think I can be very happy if 50% of my daily conversations turn out to be about sports teams. Can I really escape from that in the USA?
I have zero conversations about sports teams, yet I have plenty of friends. We may well be in a minority, but we exist. So yes, you can escape from that in the USA. People tend to group together if they have similar interests.

You state that people who have cars either have no choice or don't know any better. What arrogance! You think only your choice is valid. Where does that rigidity come from?
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