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Old 03-01-2013, 08:09 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,858,066 times
Reputation: 1439

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
Will your absurdities never cease? The extra distance a person has to walk or bicycle to exit his cul de sac and get to a collector street (the latter normally being on a right-angle grid) is absolutely negligible. Are you talking about crippled people? I am 68 and I can walk 5 or 6 miles at a very brisk pace without any difficulty whatsoever. If I lived in a cul-de-sac it would have zero effect on whether or not I would choose to walk somewhere or bicycle somewhere. You seem to have no sense of the real world.
Cul de sacs affect walkability two ways:

Those unable or unwilling to walk the extra distance are less inclined to use transit. Public tranist also serves the crippled just as much as it serves the healthy.

Those that are more willing to walk or bike longer distances find the way is blocked(i.e. someone who lives beyond the end of the cul de sac).

Here is an intresting bit of data on willingness to walk to tranist...it is about 1/4 of a mile more than that and people won't use the bus for the train it is larger.


Human Transit: basics: walking distance to transit

It makes it harder for a tranist planner to plan effective bus routes. I live on a grid there are 3 major streets each with bus routes that I could walk to. The 4th street is a little out of comfortable walking distance(i.e. I would hate to come home from work and need to walk that far) but I could bike to it with ease or use 1 bus route to get to it.

With a cul de sac, I would only have one exit which would limit me to easy access to one bus route. It would increase walking or biking distance to 2 of the routes and esp. the 4th route. if the cul de sac faced away from it. Instead of walking half a block then 2 blocks east , 2 blocks south or half a block then 4 blocks west to get to the bus routes, I would need to walk out the cul de sac first then walk thoose 2 or 4 blocks.

One of the problems of the burbs is that they do not handle traffic very well. It is almost like the were designed with the idea that only one person would have a car and when retail and esp. light industrial work goes on they clog the streets up too easy compared to the city. Despite often not having street parking on major street like cities. Grids give alternative routes to everyone walkers, buses, as well as cars.

Last edited by chirack; 03-01-2013 at 08:32 PM..
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:14 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,858,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
It depends entirely on what sort of job you have, and how you invision that job.

If you look at a JOB AS a Te@t you suck on, then you should get paid for every hour.



If you look at a JOB AS a Platform you operate from, then the more you accomplish, the better.

The second workers are the ones that will work on the train. The others will not.

How can a factory worker,nurse,doctor, maid do any work in this location?
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 872,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
How can a factory worker,nurse,doctor, maid do any work in this location?
They cannot, of course, given the nature of their jobs. (Unless there is an accident, of course.) But they may work in other places outside their hospital, giving aid where needed in an emergency.

What a shame if people only ever "worked" during prescribed business hours.
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:38 AM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,858,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
They cannot, of course, given the nature of their jobs. (Unless there is an accident, of course.) But they may work in other places outside their hospital, giving aid where needed in an emergency.

What a shame if people only ever "worked" during prescribed business hours.
It's called work/life balance. I think three bad assumtions color you vision of the burbs:

1. All burb workers need to work in the CBD doing office type work.
2. All burb user drive into the city for work
3. People like to live in very dense settings(I.E. thoose who could wouldn't buy a bigger house/yard).

1. Not all burb workers work in the CBD. Niether all city workers nor should a CBD have all the jobs in the area. The loop is Chicago's CBD but I have little reason to want to go there for much.

2. Only an insane person would drive from Chicago to Napervile during rush, but thousands make this commute every day..the simply drive to the parking lot of the Metra station.

3. Density fads fast as you get away from the CBD and for good reason. People like residential areas to be quite.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
389 posts, read 400,417 times
Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
It's called work/life balance. I think three bad assumtions color you vision of the burbs:

1. All burb workers need to work in the CBD doing office type work.
2. All burb user drive into the city for work
3. People like to live in very dense settings(I.E. thoose who could wouldn't buy a bigger house/yard).

1. Not all burb workers work in the CBD. Niether all city workers nor should a CBD have all the jobs in the area. The loop is Chicago's CBD but I have little reason to want to go there for much.

2. Only an insane person would drive from Chicago to Napervile during rush, but thousands make this commute every day..the simply drive to the parking lot of the Metra station.

3. Density fads fast as you get away from the CBD and for good reason. People like residential areas to be quite.
True points, but I'd like to point out Chicago isn't representative of normal suburban commutes. Here in Michigan we have no metra, people drive to and from work, point a to point b. My mom has a commute of 50 mins one way on a good day.

I used to have a part time gig in the ferndale/Birmingham area in Michigan, north of Detroit. They are nice areas, but a few times driving up there over up to an hour away, I couldn't do that gig anymore, I got sick of being on the road that long. Sadly I could only do that job in that area, but I can't be on the road that long. I don't know how my mom deals with that everyday.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:37 AM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,858,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
True points, but I'd like to point out Chicago isn't representative of normal suburban commutes. Here in Michigan we have no metra, people drive to and from work, point a to point b. My mom has a commute of 50 mins one way on a good day.
Yikes. Chicago you can get long commutes burb to burb and you can get long commutes by Metra but you have more ability to balance things(i.e. If wife has 50 min commute burb to burb she could move to a closer burb without making it impossible for husband to get to the loop.) The burbs that did worse in the houseing crisis were burbs far from Metra and far from any other employment.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:38 AM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
389 posts, read 400,417 times
Reputation: 199
Also, for a part time job while in school, I used to work at walmart as a cart pusher. The town was Saline, Michigan... That town was on some website as best place to raise kids in America. Now there is a highschool across the street from the walmart, you wanna know why it's supposed to be a great place for kids, there is literally nothing for them to do lol(no place to have a lil mischief). I would be pushing carts on a Friday night, these kids from the highschool would hangout in the parking lot, hanging on the cart corrals, spending hours in the dang parking lot.

It would be so nice if those kids had a small town to walk around right there to do somethings in, but nope, things weren't planned that way.

Speaking about parking, people drive crazy lol. Once a lady drove over a handicap sign, ripped up a 5ft circle of concrete... get this she just drove off and didn't take any responsibility.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:44 AM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,858,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
It would be so nice if those kids had a small town to walk around right there to do somethings in, but nope, things weren't planned that way.

Speaking about parking, people drive crazy lol. Once a lady drove over a handicap sign, ripped up a 5ft circle of concrete... get this she just drove off and didn't take any responsibility.
Yeap that is the problem with autocentric burbs...bad for walking, bad for public tranist other than maybe commuter rail/light rail. I like the older burbs that are on a grid the street car type burb where both the auto and public transit can work.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:48 AM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
389 posts, read 400,417 times
Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirack View Post
Yikes. Chicago you can get long commutes burb to burb and you can get long commutes by Metra but you have more ability to balance things(i.e. If wife has 50 min commute burb to burb she could move to a closer burb without making it impossible for husband to get to the loop.) The burbs that did worse in the houseing crisis were burbs far from Metra and far from any other employment.
True, my parents want to stay in the area for my little brother, they like the academy he goes to and he gets excellent grades.

I'm pretty sure the northeast has interstate metra-esque type transit stations like Chicago. However, around the rest of the Midwest I'm sure it's uncommon.
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:18 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,992 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
They cannot, of course, given the nature of their jobs. (Unless there is an accident, of course.) But they may work in other places outside their hospital, giving aid where needed in an emergency.

What a shame if people only ever "worked" during prescribed business hours.
Are you a business owner? Sure sounds like it! Work, work, work! Work on your way to work, work on your way home, work all the time for the glory of the company! Forget family responsibilities! Leave those kiddies in daycare and work, work, work some more! And people complain about Walmart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
True points, but I'd like to point out Chicago isn't representative of normal suburban commutes. Here in Michigan we have no metra, people drive to and from work, point a to point b. My mom has a commute of 50 mins one way on a good day.

I used to have a part time gig in the ferndale/Birmingham area in Michigan, north of Detroit. They are nice areas, but a few times driving up there over up to an hour away, I couldn't do that gig anymore, I got sick of being on the road that long. Sadly I could only do that job in that area, but I can't be on the road that long. I don't know how my mom deals with that everyday.
Chicago is a big kahuna, and has a good transit system. I don't know anything about any systems in Michigan. However, out here in the "wild west", metro Denver does have a great system that works well for some people. I think most major cities have transit.
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