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Old 03-04-2013, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 875,788 times
Reputation: 217

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I for one am getting tired of almost every single thread being hijacked to talk about this stuff, too.
Here's what I suggest : Go and start you own thread - Get off mine - if you don't like the content here!

How could a thread with this title not be about what it says it is?
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,051 posts, read 102,770,515 times
Reputation: 33099
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
A brief response would be this:
I have lived as you do (in various American cities and suburbs). Have you lived as I have : in London and Hong Kong? I would expect that those who have, would agree with much of what I say about the DANGER of living the car-dependent lifestyle that so many Americans have.

Why do you suppose so many countries outside America (Canada and Australia) have imposed high gasoline taxes? The main reason is to wean their people away from an extreme dependence on oil. America's (cowardly?) leaders don't even have the nerve to try to introduce such a tax, because they know they would by lynched, or voted out of office.

How do you suppose this drama will end? I don't see a gentle and happy ending, do you?

As far as growing some of your own food: I am all in favor of that. (Have you seen my Urban Agrarian thread ?) If you have found a way to grow your own food, and live in a Car-light or Car-free way, then I am impressed, and wondering HOW and WHERE you are doing that?
You know this how? When we were in Canada 20 years ago, my DH said he thought the high gas taxes were passed to enrich the "general socialism" budget. Taxes are usually enacted to collect money.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 875,788 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
Agreed 100%.

And it's especially ridiculous how condescending the said thread-jacking can be, with people being told that their desires to live in a certain type of environment are "factually wrong" and that we should be so lucky to be "enlightened" by watching a YouTube video or comparing how much more someone likes the layouts of cities thousands of miles away from places here in the US.
??
Excuse me, but can you please explain how I am hijacking a thread that I started to discuss the issue of Free Parking not being free, when I am explaining the alternative to the Free Parking paradigm?

Do you think you know the focus and purpose of this thread better than the one who started it?

It is more than ironic for you to talk of "condescending... thread-jacking" to the one who started the thread, and is providing so much of the detailed content, links, images, and videos that are keeping this thread alive.

Whatever it is you want to chat about, why not go and start a thread of your own, and work to keep it going. If I go there, and try to hijack it, I would find it hard to deflect your criticism. But that is not what is happening.

(In Edit: Good Luck with your new thread - that I saw. That's a genuine comment!)

Last edited by Geologic; 03-04-2013 at 09:56 AM..
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 875,788 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You know this how? When we were in Canada 20 years ago, my DH said he thought the high gas taxes were passed to enrich the "general socialism" budget. Taxes are usually enacted to collect money.
LOL.
I am sorry, but how else can I respond to that.
Are you saying that anyone who gets in the way of Americans wanting to burn up oil at 3X to 10x the rate of the rest of the world is a Socialist? It is an amazingly narrow and selfish view of the world.

Why don't you say something about Parking, K. - if you are so eager to return to the Original topic?
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 408,510 times
Reputation: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
??
Excuse me, but can yiu please explain how I am hijacking a thread that I started to discuss the issue of Free Parking not being free, when I am explaining the alternative to the Free Parking paradigm?

Do you think you know the focus and purpose of this thread better than the one who started it?

It is more than ironic for you to talk of "condescending... thread-jacking" to the one who started the thread, and is providing so much of the detailed content, links, images, and videos that are keeping this thread alive.

Whatever it is you want to chat about, why not go and start a thread of your own, and work to keep it going. If I go there, and try to hijack it, I would find it hard to deflect your criticism. But that is not what is happening.

(In Edit: Good Luck with your new thread - that I saw. That's a genuine comment!)
The original thread was about the "cost" of free parking, which has been shown to be a cost eaten by the developers/business owners to make it easier/more convenient for people from a wide geography to get there. These people who prefer to drive their cars and prefer to live in environments that they can own larger properties with larger single family homes, and have convenient shopping options. If the cost of paving a parking lot is truly the tipping point that pushes a suburban retail development or shopping mall out of business, then so be it. Businesses start up and fail all the time, I've seen plenty of urban developments rise and fall as well.

You seem to feel that these people's opinions and way of life is wrong, and that they should follow your opinion instead, all while ignoring the preferences of millions of people. If current vehicles are too fuel inefficient, that's a different argument than the alleged "cost" of parking in the suburbs, and one that I feel is and will continue to be addressed with more efficient personal transportation, rather than building a bunch of mini-Hong Kongs scattered all over America. If HK is so great to you, and truly makes you so happy, than stay there and leave people's lifestyle in America alone. If they want to change how things are going here, and enough critical mass is formed to change something, then good for them. It almost comes off as if you have insecurities about your "efficient" lifestyle if you have to spend so much time bashing the opinions of others, rather than accepting that there are a lot of people who just prefer that lifestyle and will continue to be a force of adapting it to future energy trends and sources.

Also, you're really not proving your point to people on here by posting YouTube videos of "well respected" and "enlightened" urbanists who share your opinion as well, you may as well be sharing a video of yourself talking about it... People don't become "enlightened" to your ideas by watching a video, and I believe that they don't have to be enlightened...enjoy Hong Kong....leave the suburbs alone. Live and let live.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 875,788 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
The original thread was about the "cost" of free parking...

Also, you're really not proving your point to people on here by posting YouTube videos of "well respected" and "enlightened" urbanists who share your opinion as well, you may as well be sharing a video of yourself talking about it... People don't become "enlightened" to your ideas by watching a video, and I believe that they don't have to be enlightened...enjoy Hong Kong....leave the suburbs alone. Live and let live.
What should I post then, videos of unenlightened people, spouting nonsense?
How are people going to have an informed opinion, if they are unwilling to spend a few minutes learning a bit more about the subject?

If you can find a well-respected person with a good Video argument in favor of complacency and business as usual in the suburbs, then I will try to listen to it and provide a critique. As far as I can find, such videos do not exist - only rants from a few reactionaries. But, hey, if you can find one, I will try to watch it.

I am happy that you have started your own thread, I will give you some comments to get it going.
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:49 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,867,636 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
Chirack,
Have you every been to Europe or Asia, where many people Travel by rail?
With all due respect, you seem to have not really grasped the concept of Carfree living, walkable neighborhoods, and the creation of "Places" that are attractive to be in, located next to Train stations. Europe and Asia do this sort of development better than the US does it. Which is why they are often better places to live.


I live in a city, I know and value walkable neighborhoods that being said I also know that not everyone or everywhere is going to be the same. Europe and Asia have old cities that predate even street cars. This makes huge impacts on how they developed. Streets, roads and buildings are the infrastructure of any city or town. Widening a street to allow a street car to go down much less automobiles is expensive and politically disruptive(i.e. kicking people out of houses, tearing down buildings). They remain walkable for the same reason why Chicago hasnít built another expressway since the 60ies or the same reason why putting more EL lines in is limited. The area is already developed. They are walkable because the cost of installing parking is prohibitive and there is often little to no more room for these places to grow. Any new infrastructure put into those cities must adapt to the old.
Quote:
Obviously, because it is CHEAPER to live there than in the Inner City.
And you also have access to whatever else may be in the area.
(Schools? Nature? A local village? Whatever inspired building the station there.)
But the main reason is likely to be a cost savings, since land is more expensive downtown.
???
This does not hold true in the US. In the US it can be more expensive to live in the burbs in terms of housing prices but in terms of rent not so. In Chicago many "burbs" were local vilages themselves that expanded post WWII this means that the rail and the road(highway) may not be all that close to each other.

Quote:
If you live there, you want a nice walkable "Place" to go to - with "Third rooms."
The very thing you cannot find easily in many of the most the empty and sterile suburbs of America,
Downtown Oak Park, Downtown Wheaton, Downtown Napervile and older parts of many burbs are walkable and accessable by rail.

Quote:
???
Highways and expressways ARE a pretty good definition of the middle of nowhere.
Shopping malls are an attempt to create "Place", but they often fail - if they are only about shopping, and not about a "space for living" - and outdoor "room" with multiple uses.
Not really. Shopping malls are failing becuase they over built the retail. Every burb wanted one for revenue generation but they built too many too close together and the rise of the internet as well a big box stores have really dented this market.

Quote:
Obviously, that notion needs rethinking. In cities were mass transit really works, the company running the rail can also own the retail space around it, and derive rents from it. The retail space would not have its premium value without the transport, so it makes sense to tie them together, rather than allowing some unaffiliated landlord capture all the upside. This is a critical concept.
Quote:
Have you seen all the Mall space around Singapore's MRT?
The MRT did a turnaround in its own finances some years ago, by learning to capture the rents from the strategic locations around the station. If this means changing zoning laws, then so be it!
I don't doubt public tranist on an island can compete very well with the car esp. in cities that lack other faclities for the car. The company that predated the CTA did own some buildings but again private public transit in the US had been in decline since the 20ies. The CTA was formed in the 40ies because it was no longer profitable.
Quote:
Sure, I think that it should make sense to keep bicycles off the trains, especially at rush hours. That is what is done in all countries that I know about. But you need parking for the bikes near the stations. Adding better access for bicycle riders increases the value of the station to a large group of "new" people who may want to use the trains.
Parking bikes is what people use bike racks forÖ..
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
5,802 posts, read 5,473,701 times
Reputation: 3113
There are also many parts of the country, including here in LA, where various rules mandating so many parking spaces per apartment building are waived for developers who'll build within the confines of a city.

However, they fail to realize that even if LA's public transit system were as internationally renowned as a city such as Toronto or San Francisco, residents here (and certainly elsewhere) will never get rid of their automobiles, as much as the tunnel-visioned social engineers out here and elsewhere would like to believe.

Politicians out here did away with some very efficient streetcars here 50+ years ago (think New Orleans), and it's turned out to be just one of numerous catastrophic blunders they've made over the years regarding public transit.
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