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Old 02-26-2013, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,411 times
Reputation: 661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
You know all the highways you drive on are also substantially subsidized by the fed, right? Or, you do know that, but think that it is morally right to subsidize them but morally wrong to subsidize transit.

The HBLR is pretty much seen as a success, too (unlike the Riverline on the other side of the state).
I do know that the highways are substantially subsidized, and I don't bring morality into any discussion on where or how people choose to live. I have no problem with the government subsidizing transit in urban areas where there is growth potential. I think a balance of road subsidizing for suburbia and transit subsidizing for the right urban areas is the way to go. I rode the Riverline many years ago when it first opened, and the ridership was miserable. It doesn't help that they have to share freight tracks, have many single track sections, run slow DMUs as opposed to the Kinki Sharyo electric units on HBLR and that it runs through a string of relatively low density suburbs and towns. I think it functions much better as a sort of hybrid commuter rail for folks in that region who commute to Trenton or Camden, and maybe even NYC and Philly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I've wondered how successful the HBLR is.
I'd say it's quite successful based on how much different the waterfront of Jersey City looks since the last time I really explored the area in 2001.

Google Maps Mostly all of these buildings were built in the last 10-15 years, the oldest development in this area would be my office (the tallest building in the street view above) built in 1990, and the shopping mall behind it (Newport Centre) built in 1987. Much of the newer buildings and nearly all of the residential buildings in this area were built either after or in anticipation of the light rail. It helps that there's also a PATH train station to take people to Manhattan, Hoboken or Newark from here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by memph View Post
Why wouldn't you want to live 2 blocks from a grocery store? 2 blocks is far enough that you wouldn't be affected by noise from delivery trucks and cars coming in an out, and you could still drive if you wanted.

Why would a place like this be undesirable for being 2 blocks from the shopping plaza which has a grocery store (among other things)? Oakville, ON - Google Maps
I prefer to live somewhere with minimal traffic, noise and other things going on if possible. The example you show here is actually somewhere I can see myself living, because it's close enough to the stores without being practically next to it. Perhaps I should have worded my post a little better. I actually like the relative isolation and buffer between the commercial area there, but it's not too far if on a nice day I decided to walk the relatively short distance.

Somewhere undesirable for me would be more like this local example, practically on top of a strip mall: Google Maps (hard to see in the street view, but look on the satellite version at Millstone Ct and Lott Ln, you can see what I mean better)
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
Why should people who want an urban lifestyle, have to put up with living in struggling cities, where in some cases those cities don't have good transit, aren't very walkable, crime problems, understaffed city services like police, firemen, ambulance etc?
They shouldn't, what I'm saying is, that if there is truly enough of a critical mass of people who prefer this urban/walkable lifestyle, there are plenty of cities that could become new places to attract the people who like this lifestyle. According to much of what I've read on here and seen elsewhere, it would seem like close to 20%-30% of Americans would like this lifestyle, so why not be part of some kind of real movement to re-invest in the cities? If enough people really wanted it, as I've seen many proponents of urbanity on here say, the walkability, new development, services, mass transit and even schools would all follow suit and improve.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,061 posts, read 16,070,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memph View Post
Why wouldn't you want to live 2 blocks from a grocery store? 2 blocks is far enough that you wouldn't be affected by noise from delivery trucks and cars coming in an out, and you could still drive if you wanted.

Why would a place like this be undesirable for being 2 blocks from the shopping plaza which has a grocery store (among other things)? Oakville, ON - Google Maps
Being two blocks from something not being desirable doesn't mean it's undesirable. In a neighborhood like that, most people aren't really going to care if they're two blocks (as the crow flies) or ten blocks from the strip mall. It's more likely that the neighborhood is undesirable to the people that WANT to live within two blocks of a store. First of all, the streets are properly laid out to minimize through traffic but that means walking farther. Secondly, that's a strip mall, which is very undesirable and has, to many here, a hot lava moat of a parking lot they'd literally be afraid to cross and probably need to be taken to the hospital for a panic attack if someone forced them to.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:40 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,098,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Secondly, that's a strip mall, which is very undesirable and has, to many here, a hot lava moat of a parking lot they'd literally be afraid to cross and probably need to be taken to the hospital for a panic attack if someone forced them to.
Or taken to the hospital for being hit by a car, as has happened more than once at my lava-field parking lot grocery.

It's not the parking that i'm mad at here, it's the absence of walkways in the lot. Plopping a big-box store in the middle of a dense urban neighborhood without caring about pedestrian safety is a trend here in Balto.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,061 posts, read 16,070,870 times
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Or mowed down by an errant bicyclists.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:51 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,987 posts, read 41,937,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Secondly, that's a strip mall, which is very undesirable and has, to many here, a hot lava moat of a parking lot they'd literally be afraid to cross and probably need to be taken to the hospital for a panic attack if someone forced them to.
Yes, I can manage walking across a strip mall (most, some are in areas that are unwalkable: this is far better than this). I have walked to yes, strip malls and non-strip malls. On average, the areas where strip malls are located are worse though sometimes they're ok. Rather than dismissing other poster's tastes with sarcasm, you could understand the reasons behind them. Some prefer to have their nearby commercial streets with a non-strip mall urban design such as the photos I posted here.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:51 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,098,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Or mowed down by an errant bicyclists.
In a grocery store parking lot? Tough to pick up that kind of speed. Auto-pedestrian collisions are far more common in parking lots (and everywhere else, for that matter).
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,411 times
Reputation: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Plopping a big-box store in the middle of a dense urban neighborhood without caring about pedestrian safety is a trend here in Balto.
I believe that is a poor trend to build a business in an area where a lot of people walk places based entirely on the same designs for which they build businesses in places where hardly anyone walks around. While I personally couldn't care less if whether I'm in an urban, suburban or "anything in between" area and I have to walk across a large parking lot...I've parked in the furthest spots possible in my local mall, and even with complete idiot drivers, always managed to get to the front door without even thinking I could be killed. The more urban the area, the more people are out walking places...yes I think it would be a smart design consideration to include walkways between the spots, crosswalks, stop signs or whatever else necessary to give people a more pleasant option, but it's ultimately a matter of economics for the developer. I can certainly see the sense behind including a path for pedestrians in shopping centers such as this: honda - Google Maps

This Target big-box store is located just blocks away from the HBLR and other development in Newport Jersey City, I can actually look out of the window to my right and see it right now. While I believe it was built to handle mostly cars, since a lot of people still drive from the immediate area not accessible by transit, or they would like to be able to haul their bags home, it's nice that provisions were made for folks who want to just walk across the street from the towers and grab some stuff.
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 872,495 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
If peak oil is really the issue here (and I've seen plenty of arguments for and against this), then I think the better future course of action would involve designing more efficient personal transportation, or using alternative sources of energy as well. I don't think that personal transportation will be going away any time soon, the popularity of 11 MPG SUV's may decline (I'd love to own a used one and keep it parked away for use to haul stuff or snow storms/plowing) and we'll see more efficient vehicles, but I think a lot of Americans love their environments that they live in, they enjoy using personal transportation and we will be able to accommodate it just as we also see a rise in your style of walkable, mixed-use areas for the people who prefer them.
I think we need to do both:
+ Build more fuel efficient cars (some prrogress IS being made on this), and
+ Arrange ourselves on the landscape differently (by densifying around non-car transport links)

In fact, slow progress is being made on the second one too. Young people seem to prefer walkable neighborhood to a degree which is noticeably greater than their parents
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong
1,329 posts, read 872,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddyline View Post
I'm always amazed by people that have no problem with their 45 minute commute twice a day, but don't have time to walk 10 minutes. Spending 1.5 hours a day in a car EVERYDAY, would be hell for me.
I agree.
In fact, hell would be reached far sooner than that by car for me.
Maybe I drive faster (haha)
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