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Old 02-26-2013, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Well, it does if you don't want to or can't drive.
I don't think that quite makes it a non-livable place, as plenty of people are happily living in places like this all across the country every day.

At least, if we're talking about the same definition of livable: "suitable for living in, on, or with" (from Mirriam-Webster).

Now if you're talking about being livable for people who don't have the ability to drive, don't like to drive or just happen to have a vendetta against personal automobiles, there are plenty of places in the US that they should consider relocating to. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head and saying you have to live in suburbia, even if the majority of Americans choose to and government policies have favored it for some time. Despite it being such a popular choice, we have many up and coming cities in America that one could choose from..some parts of your own hometown of Baltimore are quite nice looking as well, in the southeast corner of the city. The more people who choose to live this lifestyle, advocate for it, help develop it and create a bigger following, the local and federal governments will respond. For example, look at the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail development that I posted. Everyone in life should be able to at least have some control over where they live, if they really hate having to drive everywhere, find a place that suits your needs, research employment and living arrangements, cost of living, etc and make your move. Maybe it's more difficult when you have an established life and a family with children, but if it really matters to you, you'll make the move.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:11 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,104,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
I don't think that quite makes it a non-livable place, as plenty of people are happily living in places like this all across the country every day.

At least, if we're talking about the same definition of livable: "suitable for living in, on, or with" (from Mirriam-Webster).

Now if you're talking about being livable for people who don't have the ability to drive, don't like to drive or just happen to have a vendetta against personal automobiles, there are plenty of places in the US that they should consider relocating to. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head and saying you have to live in suburbia, even if the majority of Americans choose to and government policies have favored it for some time. Despite it being such a popular choice, we have many up and coming cities in America that one could choose from..some parts of your own hometown of Baltimore are quite nice looking as well, in the southeast corner of the city. The more people who choose to live this lifestyle, advocate for it, help develop it and create a bigger following, the local and federal governments will respond. For example, look at the Hudson-Bergen Light Rail development that I posted. Everyone in life should be able to at least have some control over where they live, if they really hate having to drive everywhere, find a place that suits your needs, research employment and living arrangements, cost of living, etc and make your move. Maybe it's more difficult when you have an established life and a family with children, but if it really matters to you, you'll make the move.
Why must someone have a vendetta against cars to not wish to drive for every little mundane activity? A gun to the head? This type of rhetoric is annoying.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Why must someone have a vendetta against cars to not wish to drive for every little mundane activity? A gun to the head? This type of rhetoric is annoying.
It was a silly exaggeration to add onto the other reasons I've listed, just like the common rhetoric I see on here about how homes like mine, 1960s single family tract homes are "cookie cutter" or the Best Buy where I bought my GPS a few months ago is a "big box". There's a lot of rhetoric and buzzwords that go around here, just having a little fun.

Additionally, I find the idea that an auto-centric area is less livable than a walking-transit-centric area to be incorrect. Different places are livable for different kinds of people.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:22 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
It was a silly exaggeration to add onto the other reasons I've listed, just like the common rhetoric I see on here about how homes like mine, 1960s single family tract homes are "cookie cutter" or the Best Buy where I bought my GPS a few months ago is a "big box". There's a lot of rhetoric and buzzwords that go around here, just having a little fun.
Big box store isn't a buzzword, it's the usual word for such stores:

Big-box store - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:23 PM
 
393 posts, read 667,601 times
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Personally, I love the older urban aesthetic. Some older buildings are downright gorgeous. Brownstones are cute and charming. Colonial townhouses and tenement buildings are also better looking than new construction.

One of the biggest problems I have with new buildings is that many of them are designed in a way that's going to be strikingly outdated in five years. Talking mostly about the outside of luxury highrises. They have elements that are so obviously tied to a specific trend that I can't imagine how they are going to look in a decade. Older buildings with details, on the other hand, are timeless.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,708 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Big box store isn't a buzzword, it's the usual word for such stores:

Big-box store - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
True...but my point was that I was using a slight exaggeration for humorous effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aptnyc View Post
Personally, I love the older urban aesthetic. Some older buildings are downright gorgeous. Brownstones are cute and charming. Colonial townhouses and tenement buildings are also better looking than new construction.

One of the biggest problems I have with new buildings is that many of them are designed in a way that's going to be strikingly outdated in five years. Talking mostly about the outside of luxury highrises. They have elements that are so obviously tied to a specific trend that I can't imagine how they are going to look in a decade. Older buildings with details, on the other hand, are timeless.
I still don't think that it has to do with urban or suburban...maybe it's just the correlation between urban = old and suburban = new that people have, but I've seen plenty of examples of ugly urbanism and some really nice suburbanism that has looked nice and will continue to look nice for many years.

Ugly urbanism, in Cincinnati: Google Maps

Very nice suburban-style strip mall on Staten Island: (sorry for the small picture) http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/gif/west...re_commons.jpg

Street View is a bit old, taken just prior to it opening in 2008, but you can see the basic design: Google Maps

It's got plenty of retail shopping, restaurants and other businesses...most people around here drive their cars and it's right off of two major highways so ample parking is provided up front. Of course, there are also plenty of sidewalks, pedestrian access, buses and a train line nearby for those without a car. I should add that I've worked at one business in here (doing deliveries), almost worked in another one, had friends who at times have worked in four other businesses in here, used to get my morning coffee here every day before heading to my old job, and spent countless nights hanging out at the Dunkin Donuts here. Just because it has a big parking lot in front and is a newer building, it doesn't lose it's sense of place. It serves a purpose in the modern environment that people live in around here, just like the mixed-use buildings serve a purpose to the people who use them in walkable downtown Brooklyn, Manhattan, etc.
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:54 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,104,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
Ugly urbanism, in Cincinnati: Google Maps
.
Ugly only due to neglect?
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:58 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 41,979,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
It's got plenty of retail shopping, restaurants and other businesses...most people around here drive their cars and it's right off of two major highways so ample parking is provided up front. Of course, there are also plenty of sidewalks, pedestrian access, buses and a train line nearby for those without a car.
I'll point that your auto-oriented views in Staten Island with good pedestrian and transit access is a combination that's less common elsewhere. The Stop & Shop view I posted is almost completely inaccessible to non-drivers.
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:10 PM
 
5,385 posts, read 6,528,678 times
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I personally prefer the suburban, "cookie-cutter" type houses (and currently live in one) Also very conveniently enough, I am within 5-10 minutes of a light-rail train station...best of both worlds, in a way

As far as the urban development vs. suburban lots discussion, different strokes for different folks is fine by me
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,708 times
Reputation: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Ugly only due to neglect?
Perhaps to some, but I happen to find them ugly no matter what. Maybe the red building with the arched window tops is kind of cool, but that style of building and design doesn't really evoke any kind of aesthetic pleasure to me, just as I suppose some people universally bash strip malls and suburban homes as being ugly. Not to mention, even if an area like that was completely turned around and gentrified, I would still feel uncomfortable in such a living arrangement, as the buildings are too close together and tall for my liking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I'll point that your auto-oriented views in Staten Island with good pedestrian and transit access is a combination that's less common elsewhere. The Stop & Shop view I posted is almost completely inaccessible to non-drivers.
This is true, however I still don't see much of a problem with that living arrangement either. Folks living in a true suburban setting such as the Long Island (?) example which you posted or somewhere even less dense could always make an effort to move somewhere that they have better non-auto access to shopping and other amenities. Doesn't necessarily have to be an urban area per se, but even in suburban Cincinnati (Milford, Ohio) which is where I'm looking to relocate, one could realistically buy a very nice suburban house in a true auto-centric, sprawled out area and still be able to walk to many nearby amenities...even if they are strip malls, big boxes and shopping malls... not necessarily that their walk will be a pleasure, but if they're just looking to be able to walk...it'd do just fine. Otherwise, consider a small town, city, streetcar suburb, Staten Island (lol), etc.

Ohio example: Google Maps

One could find a nice home within walking distance of pretty much everything they'll need in these plazas. Would it be the equivalent of walking down 72nd street on the Upper East Side to the supermarket? Not exactly, but if they want to reduce their auto-dependence, it's certainly possible.
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