U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-08-2013, 06:31 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,980 posts, read 102,527,356 times
Reputation: 33045

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
It's worth noting perhaps that shopping malls were a mid 20th century (sub)urban planning idea. Most of the rest of the urban planning ideas from this period, like towers in the park, total separation of residential and commercial zones, and obliteration of historic housing near downtowns, have been shown to be abject failures. The shopping mall, next to the cul-de-sac, probably has been the most successful element of planning from this era, but we shouldn't be surprised that it's looking a bit dusty at this point - most designs from the 1950s are.

When malls die, they die for the same reason that the sterile, single-use downtowns of urban renewal often died. If you don't have a setting where foot traffic routinely passes a business, and 100% of the people who go there are commuters, there's no stable base for businesses to rely upon. When a new bigger and better shopping alternative arrives, why would people continue to go there? And as others have noted, the problem is worse for a mall, because while a downtown with only 50% of storefronts occupied can limp along alright, a mall with only 50% occupancy will surely be closing within a few years.

It's a shame old malls are not well-suited to retrofitting. It would be an interesting experiment to try and turn one of them into a mixed-use development, complete with condo units inside the mall itself and a much smaller selection of businesses catering to the residents. I'm sure there is a small proportion of people who would like the kitsch factor of such a setup.
Oh, h*ll, a lot of old malls in the Denver area have been retrofitted to exactly what you are talking about. Here's one example.

Lakewood Shopping, Dining, Entertainment & Luxury Living | Belmar

Personally, I think it's kind of fake itself.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-08-2013, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,414 posts, read 11,910,584 times
Reputation: 10533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Oh, h*ll, a lot of old malls in the Denver area have been retrofitted to exactly what you are talking about. Here's one example.

Lakewood Shopping, Dining, Entertainment & Luxury Living | Belmar

Personally, I think it's kind of fake itself.
It looks like the residential portion is new construction built near the old mall site, which is something I've seen before (trying to turn a mall into a new urbanist community). I'm talking about turning the mall itself into condos, which would be something else entirely.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-08-2013, 06:50 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,980 posts, read 102,527,356 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
It looks like the residential portion is new construction built near the old mall site, which is something I've seen before (trying to turn a mall into a new urbanist community). I'm talking about turning the mall itself into condos, which would be something else entirely.
We have an old grocery store in town that's about to be turned into condos.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-08-2013, 08:41 PM
 
3,499 posts, read 4,954,121 times
Reputation: 3488
A long list of dying USA Malls, with commentary about each one DeadMalls.com
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-08-2013, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Tucson/Nogales
17,370 posts, read 21,213,499 times
Reputation: 24192
I haven't been to a mall in years! Working the nightshift (10p-6a) and my sleeping hours everyday are 10a-6p, and being the stores at the mall, closest to my house, open at 10a, well that's my bed time! And when I get up at 6p, and how long it takes to get this 62YO body moving, the stores are closed!

Wal-mart, open 24 hours, has been a godsend for this nightshift worker, along with the grocery stores in my area which open up at 6am!
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2013, 10:07 AM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,812,547 times
Reputation: 9769
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowlane3 View Post
A long list of dying USA Malls, with commentary about each one DeadMalls.com
A couple of those I recognize. The Frederick Towne Mall -- it was limping along for a long time, but what it amounts to is the area really couldn't support two malls, and the Francis Scott Key mall a couple of miles away (which was also limping along, but is now doing well) won.

Owings Mills was overexpansion; the mall owner probably felt the highway would bring in a ton of people, but it didn't work out that way; it was a long time before there was a lot of population growth out there. The growth now is more to the northeast, which probably means this mall won't survive.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2013, 04:52 PM
 
12,287 posts, read 15,181,947 times
Reputation: 8100
Some malls just became rundown. Mall owners need to rehab and modernize them. To some degree they always need to invest something but capital investment in malls, actually all buildings, has been starved since the economic collapse.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2013, 05:10 PM
 
2,941 posts, read 3,856,291 times
Reputation: 1439
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Some malls just became rundown. Mall owners need to rehab and modernize them. To some degree they always need to invest something but capital investment in malls, actually all buildings, has been starved since the economic collapse.
I think it was more than the economy and being run down for some malls. I think they over built. In the Chicago south burbs Evergree Plaza for instance has competion from River Oaks and Chicago Ridge. It did have an edge over River Oaks before River Oaks was enclosed but now I can't think of who it would apeal to besides people who need a bus to get to the mall. Ford City is just too large to survive a world of internet shopping and it's location is bad(Yes near the expressway, but from the north you would have to crawl through Midway Airport traffic to get to it) and from other directions no other near by expressways.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2013, 05:17 PM
 
18,852 posts, read 31,694,472 times
Reputation: 26111
There is a large "dead mall" in the center of the town I live in. Empty but for a JCP. And a few random stores.

I think it is directly due to expansion of Wal Mart, and concept of "one stop shopping", food, shoes, make up, shampoo, everything all in one store. Our busy lives now have little time for random mall wandering.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2013, 10:17 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,980 posts, read 102,527,356 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowlane3 View Post
A long list of dying USA Malls, with commentary about each one DeadMalls.com
I found this website extremely biased, at least in regards to the stories about the Colorado malls. I don't know who wrote this stuff, but there was plenty I didn't agree with, including Northglenn, CO being a high crime area.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top