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Old 11-08-2013, 10:08 AM
 
1,321 posts, read 2,185,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBMW View Post
Then, given the footprint these things have, especially, if their dead, someone needs to change the policies. Do communities/governments want what is essentially a giant dead hole?
But if the other option for "new development X" is a greenfield (and possibly incentives from the suburb who's trying to bringing jobs to the edge of the metro), it's harder to make an economic case for rebuilding that mall. You can make it harder to build on greenfields, but that just seems like a struggle of wills and dependent on political climate.

California has had some interesting conversations to that end these days, since every metro area is supposed to have a "sustainable community plan", i.e. a loose master plan for an entire metro area focused on reducing greenhouse gas emissions, but their binding power is still limited, and the question of to what extent growing populations can be absorbed through existing urban space is sometimes difficult to answer.

In any case, if it doesn't pencil out economically for new development at an existing mall, what options are left? Subsidies for one. But these are monstrosities, and different than throwing a couple million in redevelopment credits for a new apartment complex downtown. As an extreme example, Sacramento is throwing about $200 million to the new basketball arena on the site of the downtown mall. Not exactly a sustainable or replicable model.
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Old 11-14-2013, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 13,383,576 times
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Just about all of our major malls/shopping centers are doing well and enjoying a bit of a revival. I think our biggest mall a traditional enclosed set up had gotten a bit stale and had lost its competitive edge. Then a new lifestyle center opened and chased down the upscale market. Now they are in an arms race.

Our two notably dead malls...are still dead.
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Old 11-14-2013, 06:50 PM
 
4,832 posts, read 10,901,330 times
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I think the mall, lifestyle center, and outlet mall will be around for years to come. People always want lots of clothes and from working class, middle class, upper middle class, and upper class will go there. The poorest will go to Good Will and Wal-Mart while the working class to upper middle class will go to big box stores for just general products.

Here, our outlet mall is alive and well. The enclosed mall nearby is doing okay too, but the enclosed mall has evolved.

It went from Robinson's May, Sear's, and Gottschalk's to Macy's, Sear's, and Regal Cinemas 14 screen. The mall used to be all clothing stores and food court stuff and a laser tag place and now we see the mall has food, clothing, a batting cage, skate park, and soccer training facility. It's a primarily working class town with a lot of competition from other stores that compete with the working class mall like Wal-Mart, Target, Fallas Parades, Kohl's, JcPenney's, Factory 2 U, etc....

Also, towns without big box centers have STRONG malls in most cases. Big box centers hurt malls. There is only 2 big box centers in my region. We have OSH, Wal-Mart, Ross, Marshall's, Big 5, Office Max, Marshall's, Petco, and Pier 1 Imports. Not mention competition in terms of clothing to the outlet mall.

Some places like the County Fair Mall in Woodland and Eastmont Center in Oakland should have been torn down along time ago, but those two high crime and high poverty cities have no one who will invest in redevelopment and those cities are desperate for the sales tax.

Last edited by the city; 11-14-2013 at 07:04 PM..
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:10 PM
 
2,211 posts, read 1,738,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the city View Post
I think the mall, lifestyle center, and outlet mall will be around for years to come. People always want lots of clothes and from working class, middle class, upper middle class, and upper class will go there. The poorest will go to Good Will and Wal-Mart while the working class to upper middle class will go to big box stores for just general products.

Here, our outlet mall is alive and well. The enclosed mall nearby is doing okay too, but the enclosed mall has evolved.

It went from Robinson's May, Sear's, and Gottschalk's to Macy's, Sear's, and Regal Cinemas 14 screen. The mall used to be all clothing stores and food court stuff and a laser tag place and now we see the mall has food, clothing, a batting cage, skate park, and soccer training facility. It's a primarily working class town with a lot of competition from other stores that compete with the working class mall like Wal-Mart, Target, Fallas Parades, Kohl's, JcPenney's, Factory 2 U, etc....

Also, towns without big box centers have STRONG malls in most cases. Big box centers hurt malls. There is only 2 big box centers in my region. We have OSH, Wal-Mart, Ross, Marshall's, Big 5, Office Max, Marshall's, Petco, and Pier 1 Imports. Not mention competition in terms of clothing to the outlet mall.

Some places like the County Fair Mall in Woodland and Eastmont Center in Oakland should have been torn down along time ago, but those two high crime and high poverty cities have no one who will invest in redevelopment and those cities are desperate for the sales tax.
Old malls should be converted into public housing.
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Old 11-15-2013, 05:50 PM
 
1,027 posts, read 1,650,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
Dying Shopping Malls : Where? Why? Remedies



I asked this question on another thread:
Why are Shopping Malls Dying?
Why do you suppose so many Malls are closing across America?
(And so few new ones are being built?)

I got an interesting variety of answers, to summarize:

Recent answers:

+ "Malls are dying a slow death as a result of better prices on the internet resulting from less overhead and more efficient business models." (W2PA)

+ "I think malls are closing because they combine the sterility of big box 'needs' stores, but sometimes they'll have the inconvenient parking you find in a downtown." (CS)

+ "I feel that many (not all) malls are closing because trends change. Just because an indoor shopping mall or an old strip mall close down, does not mean that they are being replaced or should be replaced by facilities without easy, free parking." (KRPL)

Posted somewhere previously

+ "Malls are dying because the economy turned down, and people had less money for shopping."

There seems to be more than one reason provided here. So it is fair to say there are a variety of reasons, or perhaps confusion about the Main reason.

I find it more than a little ironic, that some people seem to think the problem of closing Malls can be solved with more parking.

I have my own reason(s), but I am not going to inflame people by putting it forward in the first post.

On this thread, I want to go beyond the WHY, and also look at the Dying Malls and suggest remedies.

BTW, the Dying Mall phenomenon seems to be most evident in America. Malls in other countries that I have been to seem to be thriving. And that includes malls built around different models than you see in the USA.
It not just malls that are dying but even store-fronts and commercial strip.Thing is people don't wont to go to 4 or 5 stores when they can drive to box store and do all the shopping.

Also malls where never popular in the sunbelt cities like the north or in Canada.
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Old 11-16-2013, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,699 posts, read 8,501,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweat209 View Post
It not just malls that are dying but even store-fronts and commercial strip.Thing is people don't wont to go to 4 or 5 stores when they can drive to box store and do all the shopping.

Also malls where never popular in the sunbelt cities like the north or in Canada.
This is also perhaps one explanation that explains the difference between US malls and malls in other countries as mentioned. Because of its size and internet penetration, online shopping is way more convenient, cheap, comprehensive, and popular in the US then it is in other countries. By far. There is alot of selection and the shipping is cheap or free and gets to you pretty quickly.
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Old 11-16-2013, 04:43 PM
 
4,832 posts, read 10,901,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
This is also perhaps one explanation that explains the difference between US malls and malls in other countries as mentioned. Because of its size and internet penetration, online shopping is way more convenient, cheap, comprehensive, and popular in the US then it is in other countries. By far. There is alot of selection and the shipping is cheap or free and gets to you pretty quickly.
i suggest you read about the kleargear.com incident before you do internet shopping.
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Old 02-21-2015, 02:22 PM
 
40 posts, read 26,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
It should be noted that one of the reasons developers have turned to the "lifestyle centers" instead of malls is they are much cheaper. Malls have huge internal space in their corridors which must be heated and air conditioned. In a lifestyle center, this space is outdoors. Lifestyle centers also typically have much smaller footprints in terms of acreage, which makes them easier to develop.
The department-store (originally "dry goods" ) model worked to ensure that one could get most of the general non-food objects from them, Inside the mall one could go to boutiques that offered specialized items, perhaps some with teen clientele (and 'shrinkage' problems) -- like phonograph records.

Quote:
I'm surprised no one has considered big box when it comes to malls either, as places like Wal-Mart and Target have undoubtedly played a major role in the death of malls. Their growth during the 1990s was roughly coterminous with the initial decline of malls - internet shopping on a mass scale, in contrast, is a much more recent phenomena. Also, the rise of superstores in general destroys the whole rationale for a mall, which is based upon numerous independent shops. If you can get 90% of what you need at a big box store, you're going to be pretty unlikely to go to a mall for the last 10%, and even if you are, you'll probably just go to the one store you need something in, and ignore all the rest.
The department store depended upon having clerks who seemed to know a little about the merchandise. By the 1980s department-store clerks were people who expected a better life by going elsewhere -- getting a factory or office job, completing a degree, getting married...

Quote:
I am not someone who enjoys shopping, but definitely I felt like growing up in the 1990s malls had a certain age-based stigma as well. Malls were places for bored teenagers to hang out and old people to walk, but no one else really wanted to bother with them. As soon as I was in college I was embarrassed to even be seen in one.
The thrill is gone. I used to know all the malls in a 100-mile radius (I live in a rural area), and as the malls became older and more banal I saw shopping for anything except books, video, or (classical) music strictly utilitarian. Utilitarian shopping perfectly fits Wal*Mart.
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Old 02-22-2015, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Queen Creek, AZ
5,210 posts, read 7,905,520 times
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Here in the Phoenix area, we have three indoor malls that are dying: Fiesta Mall in western Mesa, Metrocenter Mall in northern Phoenix, and Desert Sky Mall in the Maryvale neighborhood in western Phoenix.
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Old 02-23-2015, 04:53 AM
 
Location: Montco PA
2,053 posts, read 4,170,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuptag View Post
Old malls should be converted into public housing.
Yeah, stick it to those evil suburbanites who killed the cities in their quest for some open space and better schools. Evil they are, I tell ya.
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