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Old 03-05-2013, 06:32 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,110,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
I asked this question in another thread:

If malls are dying, why are the parking lots so full?
Are they? A lot of malls have redeveloped excess parking.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:43 AM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,725,659 times
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Interesting site that I haven't seen linked so far in this thread:

deadmalls DOT com
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:47 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,110,921 times
Reputation: 3117
Quote:
Originally Posted by ki0eh View Post
Interesting site that I haven't seen linked so far in this thread:

deadmalls DOT com
Good idea. This is an interesting one, too:

Labelscar: The Retail History Blog
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:26 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,674,652 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
I asked this question in another thread:

If malls are dying, why are the parking lots so full?
The answer to that is simple: those poor people have been coerced into driving to the malls!
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,443 posts, read 11,944,656 times
Reputation: 10548
It should be noted that one of the reasons developers have turned to the "lifestyle centers" instead of malls is they are much cheaper. Malls have huge internal space in their corridors which must be heated and air conditioned. In a lifestyle center, this space is outdoors. Lifestyle centers also typically have much smaller footprints in terms of acreage, which makes them easier to develop.

I'm surprised no one has considered big box when it comes to malls either, as places like Wal-Mart and Target have undoubtedly played a major role in the death of malls. Their growth during the 1990s was roughly coterminous with the initial decline of malls - internet shopping on a mass scale, in contrast, is a much more recent phenomena. Also, the rise of superstores in general destroys the whole rationale for a mall, which is based upon numerous independent shops. If you can get 90% of what you need at a big box store, you're going to be pretty unlikely to go to a mall for the last 10%, and even if you are, you'll probably just go to the one store you need something in, and ignore all the rest.

I am not someone who enjoys shopping, but definitely I felt like growing up in the 1990s malls had a certain age-based stigma as well. Malls were places for bored teenagers to hang out and old people to walk, but no one else really wanted to bother with them. As soon as I was in college I was embarrassed to even be seen in one.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:26 AM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,718,144 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
I asked this question in another thread:

If malls are dying, why are the parking lots so full?
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 408,013 times
Reputation: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
It should be noted that one of the reasons developers have turned to the "lifestyle centers" instead of malls is they are much cheaper. Malls have huge internal space in their corridors which must be heated and air conditioned. In a lifestyle center, this space is outdoors. Lifestyle centers also typically have much smaller footprints in terms of acreage, which makes them easier to develop.

I'm surprised no one has considered big box when it comes to malls either, as places like Wal-Mart and Target have undoubtedly played a major role in the death of malls. Their growth during the 1990s was roughly coterminous with the initial decline of malls - internet shopping on a mass scale, in contrast, is a much more recent phenomena. Also, the rise of superstores in general destroys the whole rationale for a mall, which is based upon numerous independent shops. If you can get 90% of what you need at a big box store, you're going to be pretty unlikely to go to a mall for the last 10%, and even if you are, you'll probably just go to the one store you need something in, and ignore all the rest.

I am not someone who enjoys shopping, but definitely I felt like growing up in the 1990s malls had a certain age-based stigma as well. Malls were places for bored teenagers to hang out and old people to walk, but no one else really wanted to bother with them. As soon as I was in college I was embarrassed to even be seen in one.
Lifestyle centers can be pretty cool and have their own advantages, such as reduced HVAC costs and as you said a possibly smaller footprint altogether (though in the majority of the US, I don't think this really matters as long as the real estate is cheap enough). I think the open air "village" style shopping experience of these places can be a neat novelty sometimes for leisure shopping, however I would find it to be very irritating to have to walk around outside in the freezing cold, sweltering heat, pouring rain, annoying snow and wind, or whatever else nature decides to unleash just to do my shopping. With strip malls, it's generally not an issue because you can park right up front and run right into the store you need quickly, and a lot of them have covered walkways outside. This is true for many big box stores as well. I prefer malls for their climate controlled environment, so I can get what I need between different stores without running around like an idiot with shopping bags in the pouring rain, lol. I think a nice compromise between the two is how the Jersey Shore Premium Outlets in Tinton Falls, NJ operates (even though it's an outlet mall): with convenient canopies overhead which shield out most precipitation and burning sunlight. I'll go here for outlet shopping, but I like the indoor mall for most of my mall needs, whatever they may be. If I want to go out for a walk in the sun or the rain or the snow, I'll go out for a walk....I don't want to have to deal with that while I'm shopping, I'd rather the shopping be as easy, quick, DRY and convenient as possible.

Google Maps



And, I think you're 100% right about big box "category killers" like Walmart and Target taking away business from shopping malls and even older department stores like Sears and Macy's. Department stores will always have their purpose, for example I find that JcPenney's has a much better quality and bigger selection of clothes than just going to Walmart, but I like having the choice. Big box stores are also convenient for the same reason as indoor shopping malls: get it all done under one roof, quickly and conveniently.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:52 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,674,652 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
It should be noted that one of the reasons developers have turned to the "lifestyle centers" instead of malls is they are much cheaper. Malls have huge internal space in their corridors which must be heated and air conditioned. In a lifestyle center, this space is outdoors. Lifestyle centers also typically have much smaller footprints in terms of acreage, which makes them easier to develop.

I'm surprised no one has considered big box when it comes to malls either, as places like Wal-Mart and Target have undoubtedly played a major role in the death of malls. Their growth during the 1990s was roughly coterminous with the initial decline of malls - internet shopping on a mass scale, in contrast, is a much more recent phenomena. Also, the rise of superstores in general destroys the whole rationale for a mall, which is based upon numerous independent shops. If you can get 90% of what you need at a big box store, you're going to be pretty unlikely to go to a mall for the last 10%, and even if you are, you'll probably just go to the one store you need something in, and ignore all the rest.

I am not someone who enjoys shopping, but definitely I felt like growing up in the 1990s malls had a certain age-based stigma as well. Malls were places for bored teenagers to hang out and old people to walk, but no one else really wanted to bother with them. As soon as I was in college I was embarrassed to even be seen in one.
In the 1990s I was in my 40s (all them in that decade) and I shopped at the malls for, oh, clothing (mostly), shoes, gifts, stuff like that. We had a Walmart even then for the things you buy at WM, housewares, etc. DH has always liked to go to the hardware stores and other home-improvement stores. (You'd think the home would be totally improved by now, LOL, but there is maintenance, too.)
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 408,013 times
Reputation: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
In the 1990s I was in my 40s (all them in that decade) and I shopped at the malls for, oh, clothing (mostly), shoes, gifts, stuff like that. We had a Walmart even then for the things you buy at WM, housewares, etc.
I actually just had a discussion with a few friends the other day about shopping at Walmart vs. Target vs. the mall (such exciting friends I have lol ). And generally, we came to the conclusion that:

Walmart: perfect store for grabbing cheap necessities quickly, "warehouse" like shopping environment built for convenience and low prices, and the perfect place for buying what I call "cheap Chinese sh*t" that it doesn't really matter how disposable it is. Leisure shopping *could* happen here, but it's kind of cold, dank and uncomfortable for that...especially with the *ahem* people of Walmart that you'll routinely see there. The very fact that they're there is exactly what I mean though, people who don't give a damn about how or what they look like can just go there and get what they need, easily, quickly and cheaply.

Target: much classier store, tries to mimic classic department stores or upscale grocery stores in some cases. Similar products to Walmart, though not everything. I generally find the stores to be tidy, have a much better selection and even better quality (though often times still cheap Chinese sh*t lol) products and in my experience, customer service is LEAGUES ahead of Walmart (but you don't go to Walmart for customer service lol). I don't mind leisure shopping here, and I don't even really like leisure shopping....it's just a comfortable place, and it's worth paying the little extra for things you might pay by going here.

The Mall: the specialty and variety makes it worth it alone, and I like the fact that I can get to all these places with a giant free parking lot outside and be able to walk around in climate controlled convenience. Between the variety of stores, convenient food court and restaurants and anchored department stores with MUCH better selection (and quality, IMO) of clothes and other similar items than the category killer stores above, I definitely think it has it's place as well
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:18 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,674,652 times
Reputation: 33083
^^Well, I disagree a bit about the differences between Target and Walmart, in my area anyway. First off, Walmart is closer to me, which is probably the real reason I go there more. But Walmart sells uniform scrubs, which Target does not. My Target gets very picked over looking at the holidays, doesn't seem to restock a lot.

I do not find much if any difference in customer service. In fact, a couple weeks ago, I went to Walmart to make some copies of my daughter's wedding pictures, and the people there were extremely helpful. I looked at this equipment and thought, "now what"? It was like if my DH (who sent me on this mission) had come to my medical office and had to give immunizations. I literally did not know the first thing about what to do in this "self-service" department. Now that someone has helped me, I can do it myself. I do go to Walmart once in a while to look around, eg at Halloween b/c it's my fave holiday. Sometimes I do that at Target, too.
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