U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-05-2013, 09:19 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,143,293 times
Reputation: 7737

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Are they? A lot of malls have redeveloped excess parking.

Yeah this an old mall that added many things to the perimeter parking area (now parking is an issue)

Swapped out the old Ikea for a huge new Whole foods, added many restaurants and a Dave and Busters. It actually has added much life to what was a pretty dead old style mall in suburban Philadelphia

PREIT | Plans

This was actually one of the very first encolosed malls in America

Plymouth Meeting Mall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-05-2013, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,348 times
Reputation: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
^^Well, I disagree a bit about the differences between Target and Walmart, in my area anyway. First off, Walmart is closer to me, which is probably the real reason I go there more. But Walmart sells uniform scrubs, which Target does not. My Target gets very picked over looking at the holidays, doesn't seem to restock a lot.

I do not find much if any difference in customer service. In fact, a couple weeks ago, I went to Walmart to make some copies of my daughter's wedding pictures, and the people there were extremely helpful. I looked at this equipment and thought, "now what"? It was like if my DH (who sent me on this mission) had come to my medical office and had to give immunizations. I literally did not know the first thing about what to do in this "self-service" department. Now that someone has helped me, I can do it myself. I do go to Walmart once in a while to look around, eg at Halloween b/c it's my fave holiday. Sometimes I do that at Target, too.
I see what you mean, I think this it's partially a regional thing, because Walmart stores in the central NJ/NYC area tend to be pretty universally craptastic which I should have specified. I definitely do agree about the huge selection of products though, and should have also added that in.

Come to think of it, when comparing the "craptastic" Walmarts I've been to like in Woodbridge, North Brunswick, Linden and Watchung New Jersey to the stores I've been to in the Poconos Pennsylvania, exurban/rural Clinton, New Jersey and even out in suburban Cincinnati (Milford, Ohio) where Walmart is such a more important part of the regional shopping experience, the stores tend to be quite nice actually. Much friendlier employees, more well-kept stores and a generally better shopping experience. It also doesn't help that the central NJ Walmarts I mentioned are in areas that are way too densely populated for my liking anyway. Or maybe it's a Jersey thing!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 09:34 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33050
There are a lot of Walmarts in the Colorado ski towns. Apparently, these people who have second homes in Steamboat, etc, want to save their money, too. Not so many Targets. Perhaps a different marketing philosophy. Walmart also carries fabric and sewing supplies. Should appeal to a lot of these people who want to live "off the grid" or "grid-light".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 10:13 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,096,962 times
Reputation: 3117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
There are a lot of Walmarts in the Colorado ski towns. Apparently, these people who have second homes in Steamboat, etc, want to save their money, too. Not so many Targets. Perhaps a different marketing philosophy. Walmart also carries fabric and sewing supplies. Should appeal to a lot of these people who want to live "off the grid" or "grid-light".
I think it's more likely they are catering to the low-paid service workers who live there year-round.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,252 posts, read 26,220,119 times
Reputation: 11706
Does anyone here shop on QVC?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 11:33 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33050
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
I think it's more likely they are catering to the low-paid service workers who live there year-round.
Not necessarily. My cousin had a condo in Steamboat, and we frequently went shopping at Walmart when going to visit her. The store seemed pretty full of ski people. The one in Glenwood Springs, maybe, but they're not so much of a resort community, at least not a ski community, and I think some people who work in Aspen live there. (Aspen fought to keep Walmart out.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Michigan
4,571 posts, read 7,030,520 times
Reputation: 3599
Walmart and Target have replaced a few of the malls here. The streetview images show the mall prior to being redeveloped. Definitely pretty dead. And I'm not sure, but I think Sears has plans to close this one? I'd have to look up the list.

Google Maps

This was formally Wonderland Mall, now also turned into a Walmart Supercenter and Target with room for additional development. The mall had a movie theater, but it too fell into the shadows of retail.

Google Maps

And another former Universal Mall turned into Target with attached strip mall. The movie theater from the mall survived and is now a standalone building. The Burlington Coat Factory is also original and is attached to the Target. The Marshalls is original and there used to be another anchor store, but now it's vacant. The two outlot buildings are new with smaller stores like Del Taco and cell phone service centers. I witnessed first had as the mall became an empty quiet shell of a building with only the Coat Factory, the movie theater, and an arcade were the only stores with any traffic. You could hear a pin drop across the atrium and hallways of closed store fronts and boarded up anchor stores.

Google Maps

Macomb Mall has quite not met its fate yet. But I think the anchoring Sears is set to close which might be the nail in the coffin. There's a Target and Walmart to the north and south by a mile or so and the whole area already has other major big box stores. Hard to see what potential could come of the site when/if redevelopment beckons...

Google Maps

Perhaps Macomb will follow in the footsteps of Summit Place and simply become an expanse of vacant space and remain a blight upon the land until some brave soul decides to breathe life into the hallowed beast.

Google Maps

Though I would like to point out that the downtown area for the suburb nearby doesn't look any livelier. However, there is more interest in reviving the Main Street instead of reviving the mall.

Pontiac, MI - Google Maps

So really like others have said, it's not really an urban planning problem, it's more or less a natural change to traditionally developed neighborhoods. The only thing urban planners can do is build the areas how the market wants them to be built. I'd have no reason to believe that the mall wouldn't be revived if there was demand for it to be revived, but alas, there isn't. Simply put.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 11:53 AM
 
3,944 posts, read 4,036,149 times
Reputation: 4389
Along with many other reasons that have already been stated, indoor malls are dying because they are only open a few hours a day, and the rest of the time, the real estate sits empty not earning any return. The giant parking lots are empty, and the features the mall builds to attract shoppers (a/c, fountains) are still running and cost money, and the stores that close are difficult to redevelop into new ventures (smaller footprints, multiple stores) without major structural modifications.

That seems like an urban planning problem to me. If urban planning isn't about the ability to repurpose real estate to get the best return (in terms of many factors including goodwill) then what is it about? It seems that if urban planning is only able to make the first decision about how to site properties, and not the subsequent decisions once the original site has lost its value, then urban planning is not really worth much. The tax structures and other finance/gov't issues to tear down old malls without first having to fight the owner to the last store should be included in the scope of urban planning.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 12:02 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33050
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOverdog View Post
Along with many other reasons that have already been stated, indoor malls are dying because they are only open a few hours a day, and the rest of the time, the real estate sits empty not earning any return. The giant parking lots are empty, and the features the mall builds to attract shoppers (a/c, fountains) are still running and cost money, and the stores that close are difficult to redevelop into new ventures (smaller footprints, multiple stores) without major structural modifications.

That seems like an urban planning problem to me. If urban planning isn't about the ability to repurpose real estate to get the best return (in terms of many factors including goodwill) then what is it about? It seems that if urban planning is only able to make the first decision about how to site properties, and not the subsequent decisions once the original site has lost its value, then urban planning is not really worth much. The tax structures and other finance/gov't issues to tear down old malls without first having to fight the owner to the last store should be included in the scope of urban planning.
What?? Now, some don't open until 10 AM, which annoys the early risers, but most are open until 8 or 9 PM during the week, more hours than the old downtown stores were open.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 12:22 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,096,962 times
Reputation: 3117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Not necessarily. My cousin had a condo in Steamboat, and we frequently went shopping at Walmart when going to visit her. The store seemed pretty full of ski people. The one in Glenwood Springs, maybe, but they're not so much of a resort community, at least not a ski community, and I think some people who work in Aspen live there. (Aspen fought to keep Walmart out.)
It makes little sense that Wal Mart gets more business from people who are there 30 days per year than folks who are there for about 350. The average household income of a wal mart shopper is just above $40k.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top