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Old 03-12-2013, 12:29 PM
 
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Wtf?
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,341 posts, read 14,093,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
This idea has come to me after examining many demographics and statistics on cities. I've come to see that many cities with demographics that are majorly black, i.e. 60% or more are usually poverty stricken cities with high crime, deteriorating downtowns and inner city neighborhoods, abandoned buildings, etc.
Let me stop you.

You have just laid out an argument that white flight happened. This idea that came to you, it is only 60 years after the rest of the world discovered it.
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
6,511 posts, read 9,047,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast View Post
Let me stop you.

You have just laid out an argument that white flight happened. This idea that came to you, it is only 60 years after the rest of the world discovered it.
Point being?
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Old 03-12-2013, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Metro Birmingham, AL
1,673 posts, read 2,357,535 times
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Christ can please stop with the "this city is in decline because of fill in the blank race". Could the downturn of some cities be due to their economic conditions BEFORE the downturn.

For example, Birmingham's steel and other heavy industry based economy in the mid 20th century was bad even before "white flight" and the proceeding black majority was even an afterthought. Birmingham's economic condition is better now than it was in 1950, 1960, etc.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:02 AM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
6,511 posts, read 9,047,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless in Bham View Post
Christ can please stop with the "this city is in decline because of fill in the blank race". Could the downturn of some cities be due to their economic conditions BEFORE the downturn.

For example, Birmingham's steel and other heavy industry based economy in the mid 20th century was bad even before "white flight" and the proceeding black majority was even an afterthought. Birmingham's economic condition is better now than it was in 1950, 1960, etc.
How bad was it then? Birmingham city proper has continued to shrink for over 30 years now, its poverty rate is twice the national average.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:08 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,982,537 times
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David Rusk, former mayor of Albuquerque and urban affairs expert, developed the concept of "Cities past the Point of No Return", which might be relevant to the OPs question

Heres a newspaper article on it
Cities Past The Point Of No Return



...which is specfic to Hartford, Connecicut, but the general points are there:


Quote:
To fit his description, a city must have lost population over time and have a disproportionately high minority population. There also needs to be a significant city-suburb income gap.
But so far no city has totally died, though I think East St Louis and Gary and Camden are the classic basket cases, followed by Detroit and perhaps Flint and Youngstown.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Metro Birmingham, AL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
How bad was it then? Birmingham city proper has continued to shrink for over 30 years now, its poverty rate is twice the national average.
I think people fail to realize that Birmingham's population loss and other economic issues were decades in the making. Starting in the late 1940's there were those who were concerned about this area's lack of a diverse economy, of course local leadership didnt head these warnings. Birmingham's decline (and Atlanta's rise) began in the 50's when the steel industry starting looking overseas for cheaper steel production.

Again economics along with horrible leadership has caused more problems for Birmingham than anything else. Birmingham is better off economically now than 50-60yrs ago.

People who are leaving Birmingham proper today are middle class black families leaving for better schools in the suburbs.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:13 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 8 days ago)
 
47,987 posts, read 45,443,916 times
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I take what is being said quite personal. Well, I didn't really feel like arguing with anyone, but I have alot of things on my mind that I feel need to be said.

The cities mentioned were cities that were home to major industries. For Detroit and Flint, it was the automobile industry. Baltimore, Cleveland, Birmingham, and Gary once employed large numbers of people in the steel industry. Now there are large numbers of unemployed in the cities. Decline of industry in combination of racial tensions made things go bad.

The way I see it, certain questions are not being answered. Alot of people want to say "it's because theses cities are majority Black that they decline". Well, this is what I see. If you replaced the poorest Blacks with professional, entrepreneurial, law-abiding, and educated Blacks, things were turn around quickly. However, that hasn't happened.

Whites were the first ones to leave. By design, Blacks were kept in the cities because for the most part, they were not welcomed in most suburbs. Blacks were often kept from living in certain neighborhoods as well. Many did not want Blacks around, period. When certain laws prohibiting Blacks from living in certain places were struck down or declared unenforceable, many Blacks started leaving the cities as well. This is the thing to understand. Blacks who had the finances and the jobs left many neighborhoods for other neighborhoods, or left the city altogether for the suburbs. Who was more likely to stay behind? Was it the professional Blacks, or was it the poorest Blacks?

There is more to this than meets the eye. It is more than just "Blacks move in, everything goes down". It is not that simple, nor it is that way.

Better to ask these questions:

1) Why did professional Blacks leave the cities?
2) Why are the poor often the ones left behind?

The way I see it, these cities are majority Black, not because Blacks as of recent decided to make these cities their new homes. These cities are majority Black because many people did not want Blacks around them, and then later on in history, Blacks who had the means left the cities as well. Those who were left behind were often the poor and Black. Race is more a correlation. Correlation is not causation.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:39 AM
 
1,197 posts, read 1,868,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
... Now there are large numbers of unemployed in the cities. Decline of industry in combination of racial tensions made things go bad.

...Whites were the first ones to leave. By design, Blacks were kept in the cities because for the most part, they were not welcomed in most suburbs.
This sums it up quite nicely.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:21 AM
 
6,816 posts, read 6,945,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I take what is being said quite personal. Well, I didn't really feel like arguing with anyone, but I have alot of things on my mind that I feel need to be said.

The cities mentioned were cities that were home to major industries. For Detroit and Flint, it was the automobile industry. Baltimore, Cleveland, Birmingham, and Gary once employed large numbers of people in the steel industry. Now there are large numbers of unemployed in the cities. Decline of industry in combination of racial tensions made things go bad.

The way I see it, certain questions are not being answered. Alot of people want to say "it's because theses cities are majority Black that they decline". Well, this is what I see. If you replaced the poorest Blacks with professional, entrepreneurial, law-abiding, and educated Blacks, things were turn around quickly. However, that hasn't happened.

Whites were the first ones to leave. By design, Blacks were kept in the cities because for the most part, they were not welcomed in most suburbs. Blacks were often kept from living in certain neighborhoods as well. Many did not want Blacks around, period. When certain laws prohibiting Blacks from living in certain places were struck down or declared unenforceable, many Blacks started leaving the cities as well. This is the thing to understand. Blacks who had the finances and the jobs left many neighborhoods for other neighborhoods, or left the city altogether for the suburbs. Who was more likely to stay behind? Was it the professional Blacks, or was it the poorest Blacks?

There is more to this than meets the eye. It is more than just "Blacks move in, everything goes down". It is not that simple, nor it is that way.

Better to ask these questions:

1) Why did professional Blacks leave the cities?
2) Why are the poor often the ones left behind?

The way I see it, these cities are majority Black, not because Blacks as of recent decided to make these cities their new homes. These cities are majority Black because many people did not want Blacks around them, and then later on in history, Blacks who had the means left the cities as well. Those who were left behind were often the poor and Black. Race is more a correlation. Correlation is not causation.
In the Atlanta suburbs, when the black population of an area rose, crime begin to increase dramatically. Perfect examples are Clayton County and Dekalb County. Both Counties lost or are beginning to lose school accreditation and has a lot of corruption within it's government. Meanwhile, the suburbs with the best schools are vastly majority white or Asian in the northern suburbs of Alpharetta, Johns Creek, Sandy Springs, and Roswell.

Now I'm not saying all black people are criminal....not even most...but per capita, crime among blacks are probably the highest in the nation. Notice how crime in Atlanta has dropped considerably over the years as the black population percentage continues to decrease. When you look at the statistics, there's a pretty good correlation between black population of an area and the crime of an area. Blacks are still on the lowest end of the spectrum when it comes to median income and education attainment.
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