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Old 03-14-2013, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 9,942,974 times
Reputation: 2978

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Pretty sure I've been driving the Katy Freeway into downtown Houston my entire life.

While no one today would ever build a city bisected and dissected by freeways, the thought of removing such freeways is almost unimaginable to most people. It simply that they don't know better and can't picutre the city without it.

However if you could turn back the clock, these freeways would never have been located where they were. That was the madness of The Greatest Generation and the continued inertia of self indulgence boomers. As GenX takes over the reigns and Millennials come of age, bit by bit the madness will subside and reason and return to sanity will prevail.

This is a battle royale that will play out over the course of the 21st century. Like all great battles, this one has a predetermined outcome -that of greater cities-happier denizens.

It's just getting started and the real momentum will build when the boomers finally cede power to those with greater visions and better ideas.
Have you ever read any Maoist propaganda from 1950's China? The justifications for things like the "Great Leap Forward" and the "Cultural Revolution" sound just like these statements. It's not that some of the proposals don't have merit, it's just the weird grand proclaimations that opposing ideas are "self-indulgence" and "madness", and that your ideas are "greater visions" and their execution is a "great battle" of the century!

I find it bizarre that some can't separate rhetoric from reasonable discussion.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:18 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,166,272 times
Reputation: 7738
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Not quite that radical. She wants to cut I-95 from I-76 to I-676... so you'd shunt everyone onto the Surekill Distressway, Roosevelt Boulevard, and the Vine Street expressway instead. Because those roads are so underutilized as it is :-)

Dont see this happening but there are also two Jersey routes that would be easier actually from 676. For example 676 east (Ben Franklin) through Camden to 42/76 and back across the Walt Whitman

regardless I dont see it happening

hopefully some of 95 say Market to South will become most covered
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:29 AM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,715,982 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
Have you ever read any Maoist propaganda from 1950's China? The justifications for things like the "Great Leap Forward" and the "Cultural Revolution" sound just like these statements. It's not that some of the proposals don't have merit, it's just the weird grand proclaimations that opposing ideas are "self-indulgence" and "madness", and that your ideas are "greater visions" and their execution is a "great battle" of the century!

I find it bizarre that some can't separate rhetoric from reasonable discussion.
That the so-called greatest generation destroyed cities and then begat the self-indulgent boomers is sort of beyond question.

But never fear, GenX has already begun to undue the damage wrought by the those generation, a process which the Millennials will finish and their children will inherit a better world than one that was left their parents.

I shall not apologize for being on the correct side of history, nor shall I play politic because it hurts some people's feelings.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,378 posts, read 59,846,787 times
Reputation: 54025
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
I find it bizarre that some can't separate rhetoric from reasonable discussion.
Get used to it if you want to hang around on this forum. Anyone who doesn't fall in line with the rhetoric is disparaged and/or belittled in all sorts of creative ways!
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Old 03-14-2013, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
8,729 posts, read 7,686,254 times
Reputation: 7650
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
Have you ever read any Maoist propaganda from 1950's China? The justifications for things like the "Great Leap Forward" and the "Cultural Revolution" sound just like these statements. It's not that some of the proposals don't have merit, it's just the weird grand proclaimations that opposing ideas are "self-indulgence" and "madness", and that your ideas are "greater visions" and their execution is a "great battle" of the century!

I find it bizarre that some can't separate rhetoric from reasonable discussion.
Have you ever read the Cold War era American propaganda? Talk about weird, grand proclamations... God is on OUR side!!!
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Canada
4,699 posts, read 8,492,106 times
Reputation: 4888
We buried the downtown highway in Montreal years ago, and I guess it helped but it's still a scar on the city and an obvious barrier, even buried.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:37 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,715,982 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
We buried the downtown highway in Montreal years ago, and I guess it helped but it's still a scar on the city and an obvious barrier, even buried.
How many decades was the freeway there?

scars like freeways take decades to heel. When 25 years have elapsed you can review and see if things have changed.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:55 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,803 posts, read 10,714,285 times
Reputation: 2523
Quote:
Originally Posted by A2DAC1985 View Post
Do you think it would:

1) Help

2) Hinder

3) Be of no consequence

to the downtowns in America if every freeway that currently runs though the official downtowns in America WAS BURIED UNDERGROUND, a la "The Big Dig" in Boston.

Thoughts?



P.S. Money is not an issue. Just the idea is being discussed, not the financials.
You've assumed away the main negative. Other than the $$, what are the negs - the disruption to traffic associated with the project, and the loss of the view from the road? Compared iwth gaining valuable real estate and improving ped (and bike and local auto traffic) connectivity in dense areas?

Thats an easy one, but the real reason we do so few of these is because $$ ARE an issue.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:20 PM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,005,466 times
Reputation: 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by A2DAC1985 View Post
Do you think it would:

1) Help

2) Hinder

3) Be of no consequence
It entirely depends on the city and the aftermath of the project.

In SF, the Embarcadero was an eyesore because visually cut off high rises from the bay views. What's there now can be a pain to use, but is generally preferable.

In San Jose, 87 does form a barrier along downtown to westward development, but I don't trust the city to manage development in a constructive way if it had that space back. Bigger than the existence of the freeway is that it is ugly, pedestrians are treated as second-class citizens, and the Park area isn't a place worth going to, freeway or not.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,068 posts, read 16,085,690 times
Reputation: 12641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Pretty sure I've been driving the Katy Freeway into downtown Houston my entire life.

While no one today would ever build a city bisected and dissected by freeways, the thought of removing such freeways is almost unimaginable to most people. It simply that they don't know better and can't picutre the city without it.

However if you could turn back the clock, these freeways would never have been located where they were. That was the madness of The Greatest Generation and the continued inertia of self indulgence boomers. As GenX takes over the reigns and Millennials come of age, bit by bit the madness will subside and reason and return to sanity will prevail.

This is a battle royale that will play out over the course of the 21st century. Like all great battles, this one has a predetermined outcome -that of greater cities-happier denizens.

It's just getting started and the real momentum will build when the boomers finally cede power to those with greater visions and better ideas.
So basically, we're at mid-late 2000s being the massive turning point from evil Boomers and awesome Gen-X?

Meanwhile, poster-child Portland is proceeding along in widening I-5. It's only in the planning phase so far, but we'll see. I'm sure there are other projects.
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