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Old 03-20-2013, 09:56 PM
 
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While most local car trips in NYC are not done on a freeway, I'd guess a significant number of the freeway trips are local. Maybe a majority if you exclude the Cross-Bronx
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
I wonder the same thing. All those cars have to go somewhere.
They aren't going to park their vehicles on the freeways. Freeways bring more traffic and congestion than they try to eliminate. Space that could have been used for a new building is wasted for a parking spaces vehicles and some city streets are not sufficient enough to handle the volume of traffic.

I find them inefficient and counterproductive in cities with the close proximity of on and off ramps and the amount of volume at its peak.

Speaking of NYC, The Cross Bronx Expressway was built through the Bronx to connect traffic to the George Washington Bridge from Long Island and points north. How's that working out? Most of its exits is pointless and the road is congested most of the day. I could get around that area faster going out of the way and crossing the Hudson River 20 miles upstream over Tappan Zee Bridge.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
Maybe, but what replaced the Big Dig is still a dead zone:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Bosto...269.58,,0,0.94

Large divided road instead with lights, and green space in the middle. The green space is nice, but the setting is still too noisy. And the space is really wide and feels like a barrier. I haven't been to Boston pre-Big Dig to see how it compares, but it's hard to bring back what was lost.

Air quality is horrendous next to a busy road. That's not where you want green space or to spend any more time than you need to.
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
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Originally Posted by Phyxius View Post
They aren't going to park their vehicles on the freeways. Freeways bring more traffic and congestion than they try to eliminate. Space that could have been used for a new building is wasted for a parking spaces vehicles and some city streets are not sufficient enough to handle the volume of traffic.
Your argument is mixing apples and oranges, and no one's talking about parking.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
But using cars to get around is not the same as using freeways for local trips. Unless you live close enough to the freeway and your destination is near one, it may not be worth to use one.

It's not really a huge majority, either, though I can't dig up stats right now (and, overall a majority of households in NYC don't own cars) .
Not so much a huge majority of the city population wise, but a huge geographic section of the city does rely heavily on cars. Manhattan has a 23% household-car ownership rate which is to be expected, because it's super-dense Manhattan. If you live there, you may likely accept that you don't want to use a car for anything except leaving the island or the occasional road trip. I know several people who live in Manhattan who do own cars, despite the inconvenience and to them, it's absolutely worth it. Brooklyn and the Bronx are about half of the households with cars, and then there's Queens with 64% and my own Staten Island with 84%....majority of households have cars...most likely have more than one, our household alone has four cars (though we're probably replacing one soon with a better car since it's an old beater).

Source

The overall majority of households may not own cars, 1.4 million households out of 3 million is certainly not a few people. I think it's just skewered, because the people who live in the dense areas are less likely to own a car, which of course makes sense....but looking at the map below, it's clear that the majority of land area outside of the few super-high density areas has some pretty high car ownership. I should have made that more clear in my original post, by saying that area-wise, the majority of the city is using cars very heavily.


(source from NYC EDC at the above link)

As far as using freeways/highways to get around the city, I don't have any statistics on that, but a lifetime of living here, knowing people in all five boroughs who drive and my own anecdotal experiences: people use highways all the time to get around the city. Its all about habits, really. For example sometimes the Staten Island Expressway is so backed up, that I take side streets to save time...but that only occurs for a couple of hours a day. Most times, I can easily take it across the island or over to Brooklyn/Queens.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:30 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Your argument is mixing apples and oranges, and no one's talking about parking.
They're not separate. Every car on a freeway heading downtown requires a parking space at the end downtown.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
They're not separate. Every car on a freeway heading downtown requires a parking space at the end downtown.
What about taxis? Car service? Limos? Police cars? People dropping people/stuff off? Joyriders? People heading downtown to go through downtown to somewhere else?

They may only require temporary curb space, or maybe no space to stop at all. Not necessarily parking.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
They're not separate. Every car on a freeway heading downtown requires a parking space at the end downtown.
Who says every car is heading downtown? I didn't see that in the list of rules for this discussion.

Say I'm going from one Cincinnati east side neighborhood to another neighborhood on the west side. I hop on I-71 south, then Ohio 562 west (also a freeway), I-75 south to I-74 west.

Not going downtown ... didn't even go through downtown ... and the person I'm visiting has a driveway. Heck, sometimes it's more convenient to use the freeway just to hop from one exit to another. The locals in Washington, Pa., do that on I-70 on a constant basis (I just wish they'd get up to freeway speed when they do so!).

The point is ... Drivers do use the freeways for local short hops in addition to drivers going downtown, or going through downtown to another local destination, or going away from downtown to an outlying destination, or just passing through.

Imagining all those local drivers off the freeways and on the city streets is one thing -- there are plenty of arguments that freeways built for interstate commerce (or whatever reason you believe they were built) shouldn't be handling local traffic -- but add that interstate commerce to the city streets, and congestion wouldn't increase? Really?
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Your argument is mixing apples and oranges, and no one's talking about parking.
If his point is what I think, then he's saying that freeways allow people to travel more simply (if this where a network, we'd be talking about reducing the number of hops) between two places. People can travel any given distance more easily, thereby reducing the cost of travelling all distances along the freeway; as a result, people simply travel farther or more often.

This relates to his point because now more people can and do come to common destinations, which results in more vehicles in a CBD or downtown. That is to say, we see an induced demand.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Who says every car is heading downtown? I didn't see that in the list of rules for this discussion.

Say I'm going from one Cincinnati east side neighborhood to another neighborhood on the west side. I hop on I-71 south, then Ohio 562 west (also a freeway), I-75 south to I-74 west.
To get to any destination in South Los Angeles or the Westside, I have to use the freeways through downtown and then go back out since there is no freeway that runs between my central neighborhood and those outer ones. Taking the surface streets, though shorter mileage-wise, would end up taking as much as 20-30 minutes longer than the freeways.
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