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View Poll Results: Which city is more Urban
Chicago 114 79.17%
Los Angeles 30 20.83%
Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-30-2013, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,252,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Sure, we'll do that. There's also most of the San Gabriel Valley, Inland Empire, Ventura and Oxnard County, Pacific Palisades/Malibu/Topanga , South Los Angeles, and Gateway Cities and probably some others I'm leaving out.
I'm sure. Just like New York has Connecticut, Long Island, Jersey and Westchester, which covers a very large area. And you'll find people who can speak in excruciating detail about all of those different areas.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Seattle
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As a whole, Chicago is more urban. LA is pretty urban too, but whan you look at the whole LA area, much of it is suburbs.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,252,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evan2222 View Post
As a whole, Chicago is more urban. LA is pretty urban too, but whan you look at the whole LA area, much of it is suburbs.
Have you ever been to Hollywood, Koreatown or Downtown LA?
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:03 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,149 posts, read 23,676,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I'm sure. Just like New York has Connecticut, Long Island, Jersey and Westchester, which covers a very large area. And you'll find people who can speak in excruciating detail about all of those different areas.
True, but when people talk about New York City are they usually inclusive of all those parts? I know there's the occasional person who will claim they're from NYC but they really mean one of those areas, but that's not generally the case and they certainly aren't accepted as such. LA's a bit more, uh, inclusive.
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,252,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
True, but when people talk about New York City are they usually inclusive of all those parts? I know there's the occasional person who will claim they're from NYC but they really mean one of those areas, but that's not generally the case and they certainly aren't accepted as such. LA's a bit more, uh, inclusive.
You've pointed that out before. That's why I suggested you ask people how familar they are with the entire region. So when someone says something to this effect...

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Los Angeles has nothing like The Loop, River North, et al.

Chicago wins.
I'm assuming they've been to places like Koreatown, Hollywood, Downtown, etc. I'd assume the same would be true for the poster who said that LA "lacked the contiguity necessary for a true urban culture develop." You can't write off everyone as being unknowledgeable, particularly in light of the fact that you don't live in LA yourself (and have stated that you grew up in the suburbs of LA). Someone who visits friends in Central LA, works there, or hangs out there could possibly know more about it than you.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:28 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
You've pointed that out before. That's why I suggested you ask people how familar they are with the entire region. So when someone says something to this effect...



I'm assuming they've been to places like Koreatown, Hollywood, Downtown, etc. I'd assume the same would be true for the poster who said that LA "lacked the contiguity necessary for a true urban culture develop." You can't write off everyone as being unknowledgeable, particularly in light of the fact that you don't live in LA yourself (and have stated that you grew up in the suburbs of LA). Someone who visits friends in Central LA, works there, or hangs out there could possibly know more about it than you.
I don't write off everyone as unknowledgeable. LA has some obvious defects and its urbanity certainly isn't commensurate with its population. I grew up in the suburbs of LA and I also grew up in LA proper and lived there for quite a while (I also grew up and lived in various parts of East Asia including big, dense cities with the vibrancy that the US seldom sees as well as out in the countryside (and I mean countryside as in terraced rice paddies, twenty minute scooter ride to town, catching frogs in the fields for eating) and villages of East Asia). I visit friends, family, and clients who live in both suburbs and city on average two or three times a year and so I'd say I'm pretty familiar with the area and I do manage it by mass transit when I can. I'm acutely aware of the fact that some of the people who live in LA don't know LA very well--and that plays pretty well into the idea that living in the suburbs can be terribly isolating.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 04-30-2013 at 08:46 PM..
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,252,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I'm acutely aware of the fact that some of the people who live in LA don't know LA very well--and that plays pretty well into the idea that living in the suburbs can be terribly isolating.
I would actually imagine that people living in more decentralized cities are more familiar with their region than people living in more centralized cities. When I'm in Atlanta, for example, I may go from Lawrenceville to Lenox Mall (Buckhead) to Downtown to Marietta and then to College Park all in one day. Most of the shopping and attractions and stuff I want to do are spread all over the Metro area so I end up driving all over the place. And most people drive all over the metro area because their jobs are scattered all over the place.

In contrast, I find that people living in Manhattan know a lot less about other areas. Many of them have never been to Long Island or ever spent any significant amount of time in New Jersey or Connecticut. They live in Manhattan, work in Manhattan, shop in Manhattan, dine in Manhattan, go the gym in Manhattan, club in Manhattan, go to shows in Manhattan, and pretty much do everything in Manhattan with the occasional excursion out to Brooklyn. And of course, the overwhelming majority of them don't even have cars, so those types of trips would be a complete hassle. So I think it's one thing to say that people in suburbs are socially isolated (which I don't necessarily agree with), but it's another thing to say that those people are more isolated from the rest of the region than people living in cities.

And before someone says, "I live in Central LA and never leave because everything I need to do is right here," I ask you to think about the larger perspective. That may be true for you specifically, but there's a far higher percentage of people living in Central LA who crank up cars to head for jobs in the burbs than there are people living in Manhattan that crank up cars to head for Queens, LI, Staten, Jersey, Westchester, Connecticut, etc. I would say the same is also true for Chicago, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Boston or DC.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:07 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,149 posts, read 23,676,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I would actually imagine that people living in more decentralized cities are more familiar with their region than people living in more centralized cities. When I'm in Atlanta, for example, I may go from Lawrenceville to Lenox Mall (Buckhead) to Downtown to Marietta and then to College Park all in one day. Most of the shopping and attractions and stuff I want to do are spread all over the Metro area so I end up driving all over the place. And most people drive all over the metro area because their jobs are scattered all over the place.

In contrast, I find that people living in Manhattan know a lot less about other areas. Many of them have never been to Long Island or ever spent any significant amount of time in New Jersey or Connecticut. They live in Manhattan, work in Manhattan, shop in Manhattan, dine in Manhattan, go the gym in Manhattan, club in Manhattan, go to shows in Manhattan, and pretty much do everything in Manhattan with the occasional excursion out to Brooklyn. And of course, the overwhelming majority of them don't even have cars, so those types of trips would be a complete hassle. So I think it's one thing to say that people in suburbs are socially isolated (which I don't necessarily agree with), but it's another thing to say that those people are more isolated from the rest of the region than people living in cities.

And before someone says, "I live in Central LA and never leave because everything I need to do is right here," I ask you to think about the larger perspective. That may be true for you specifically, but there's a far higher percentage of people living in Central LA who crank up cars to head for jobs in the burbs than there are people living in Manhattan that crank up cars to head for Queens, LI, Staten, Jersey, Westchester, Connecticut, etc. I would say the same is also true for Chicago, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Boston or DC.
Definitely hasn't been true in my experience nor in the experience of people I've met. If going everywhere by car is the default and almost sole mode of transportation for someone, then even for very near distances they will take the car. They will serendipitously or by necessity see the things within immediate walking distances. They will be drawn to events and shops other people recommend even if a fair distance away, but that doesn't mean they particularly know the layout or neighborhood of the place where that shop is located. What's more, the places that are in the sort of areas we're talking about are crowded with more difficult parking and often quite a bit of traffic to get to and that's simply unappealing. I'm pretty sure I've lived in more areas of Southern California than most (uprooted about nine or so times) and I know a pretty diverse lot of people. What you're saying simply doesn't ring true to me for Los Angeles.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,115,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Definitely hasn't been true in my experience nor in the experience of people I've met. If going everywhere by car is the default and almost sole mode of transportation for someone, then even for very near distances they will take the car. They will serendipitously or by necessity see the things within immediate walking distances. They will be drawn to events and shops other people recommend even if a fair distance away, but that doesn't mean they particularly know the layout or neighborhood of the place where that shop is located. What's more, the places that are in the sort of areas we're talking about are crowded with more difficult parking and often quite a bit of traffic to get to and that's simply unappealing. I'm pretty sure I've lived in more areas of Southern California than most (uprooted about nine or so times) and I know a pretty diverse lot of people. What you're saying simply doesn't ring true to me for Los Angeles.
Yeah I've never heard of people driving all over the metro in one day to accomplish chores. Of course it happens from time to time but it's not a common occurrence like you are describing. The traffic in Los Angeles makes that incredibly undesirable and a huge waste of time.

Maybe you (Bajan) should post your hypothesis in the LA board and see if people agree.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,252,873 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Definitely hasn't been true in my experience nor in the experience of people I've met. If going everywhere by car is the default and almost sole mode of transportation for someone, then even for very near distances they will take the car. They will serendipitously or by necessity see the things within immediate walking distances. They will be drawn to events and shops other people recommend even if a fair distance away, but that doesn't mean they particularly know the layout or neighborhood of the place where that shop is located. What's more, the places that are in the sort of areas we're talking about are crowded with more difficult parking and often quite a bit of traffic to get to and that's simply unappealing. I'm pretty sure I've lived in more areas of Southern California than most (uprooted about nine or so times) and I know a pretty diverse lot of people. What you're saying simply doesn't ring true to me for Los Angeles.
I would say it's definitely true. Someone living in the Valley has probably been to Hollywood (possibly to have dinner or go clubbing), Downtown (for work), Santa Monica (for entertainment), etc. The average Angeleno, even those living in Central Los Angeles, have more reason to venture across the region. How many people in Manhattan are going to New Jersey or Westchester ever? They might to go the Hamptons in August, but for the most part, people are content to stay in the city and never leave because everything they want to do is on the Island.
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