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Should that be surprising considering that the typical LA boosters also voted in the poll? That's why I specifically requested that the poll not be anonymous.
I guess he's never been to Koreatown, Hollywood, or DTLA. Someone should let him know they exist.
To be honest with you, I'm not sure who you are arguing with. I agree with David Aguilar - there is nothing in LA like the Loop.
To be honest with you, I'm not sure who you are arguing with.
I just feel like there's some effort being made to minimize the weight of others' assessments based on the fact they don't live in Central LA. I honestly don't see what difference that makes at all. I mean, brooklynborndad lives in Annadale, VA and I find him to be pretty knowledgeable about most things in the District of Columbia (and yes, there are quite a few people who live in the DC suburbs who never go into DC even for work...especially older married couples with kids). I suspect there are a number of people living in the suburbs of LA who have some familarity with the central city just as BBD (hehe) has some familiarity with DC. I don't even see why someone who lives in the LA region but only goes to "core" LA once a year can't make a valid assessment of its urbanity vis-a-vis Chicago or any other city.
Yes, I would. They could make assessments such as "the area has lots of shops and is always bustling" or "I used to work over there and it's a pain in the ass to get there on transit." It's the same way you wrote a long post in the New York forum about different parts of the city I'm sure you've never lived in. I don't think I have to live on the Grand Concourse to give an assessment of the Bronx. In fact, I've never even lived in Center City Philadelphia and I make assessments about that all of the time. I don't have to rent out a condo in Center City to assess its urbanity.
But that's my problem: this is an assumption you're making. You could only know how familar they are by asking. I mean, have you ever lived in Koreatown? You may visit friends there on occasion and go to bars there, but then the same could also apply to many people living in the Valley (i.e., Lifeshadower).
I know you would, but I also know that you know very little of the area or the people there. Transit isn't even on the map for a lot of people. It's not the same thing because in getting to your location by car, you're not really prone to see what things are like around you. Especially if you're on a freeway, you're going to skirt everything by very quickly and not notice a damned thing. I've stayed in Koreatown for about four two week stretches at a friend's place and can speak some Korean and can sound out the words though a lot of times don't understand what I'm saying. Does that help with being more knowledgeable than most about the area?
Koreatown's certainly a growing nightlife region for the non-Korean crowd but even the Korean crowd that drives in aren't going to know that much about the neighborhood save for a few of the hotspots they're into. They're not going to know about the transit that gets there, the other sorts of shops such as grocery stores, liquor stores, local coffee shop, the local library or going to a corner deli to pick up a few things here and there--basically all the things that make a place the sort of urban neighborhood we're talking about rather than an amusement park for the people coming in from elsewhere.
I don't understand the argument you're making. Yea, maybe some people from the suburbs are going to get a good understanding of what neighborhoods are like, sure it's possible. However, I doubt that's the case when it's just the occasional dalliances into certain neighborhoods for something special or other (and you sure as hell aren't going to be doing stuff so often if the trip is way out of your way and is a thirty or forty minute drive where you have to look for and pay for parking and then have to drive, possibly inebriated, back to the suburbs)--and for a good lot of people who reside in LA, there are rarely any trips at all to the Westside, downtown or Hollywood. From my experiences, there is generally a pretty apparent difference in knowledge and general experience of LA from those who do live in the more urban areas and those who live in the suburbs. Sorry if it's all anecdotal though.
Also, I've lived in at least one month stretches (but often longer) in over a dozen places in NYC over six going on seven years. I've hit all the boroughs (and multiple neighborhoods) except Staten Island and have done Westchester as well. It's been fun and I do feel decently comfortable talking about some NYC neighborhoods more than others when I've actually lived in the general area before.
Chicago though has definitely been just visits. Can't really reliably trust my own experiences on that one--I defaulted to voting for Chicago anyhow.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 05-01-2013 at 01:04 PM..
Historic Core: Main / Spring from 12th / Main to Temple / Spring (a little over a mile)
Koreatown / Wilshire Center: Wilshire from Hoover to Western (1.4 miles)
Westlake / MacArthur Park: Wilshire from Beaudry to Hoover (1.4 miles)
Hollywood: Hollywood Blvd from La Brea to Gower (1.3 miles)
Particularly with the Historic Core corridor, there are adjacent ones that are also very urban.
This works better on Chrome (it doesn't work on FireFox):
I looked at the streets you gave me, and I don't think they beat out Chicago on "urban".
Maybe there are other streets that are more "urban" in Los Angeles?
Pretty cool feature - wish it was a little slower though.
Those are the most cohesive stretches - there are definitely more urban streets in Los Angeles but don't have the kind of cohesion those stretches have for a mile +.
I know you would, but I also know that you know very little of the area or the people there.
Let's make sure we're clear here. You said the following...
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
They've been to Hollywood in the sense that someone from Suffolk County has been to Times Square many times or that there is this one lounge they were introduced to in the Lower East Side which they like to go to sometimes. Would you then consider their opinions about the city particularly accurate?
In this sentence, I thought you were asking if I would consider the opinion of someone from Suffolk County (nei for example) who had been to Times Squares many times to be accurate. And I said, "Yes, I would." I don't see why he would have to live in Manhattan to describe the buildings, the pace of the city, and give his general overall impression of its urbanity. The only thing I think you really have to live in a city a while to understand are certain social dynamics. For example, it's foolish to spend a few days in Lower Manhattan and conclude that IR dating is not prevalent in the area. However, it's not so foolish to spend a few days in Lower Manhattan and make an assessment of the urbanity of the area. That's reasonable, imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Transit isn't even on the map for a lot of people. It's not the same thing because in getting to your location by car, you're not really prone to see what things are like around you.
I actually spent a fair deal of time riding around Chicago in a car. I could still get a sense of River North and Streeterville even in a car. I mean, if you just drove through Center City or the Village, you could still sense the vibrancy because there are large numbers of people on every street. How would you miss that?
The other thing is that when people go to Chicago they see bustling areas with lots of pedestrian activity that make them want to walk. People generally want to walk in places like the North End or Georgetown because everyone else is doing it. And it's easy to walk through enormous swaths of the city and have company along the way. I mean, if you're in Paris, you can bypass transit altogether and walk for miles. You could do the same to a more limited extent in our Tier 2 cities (SF, Bos, DC, Chicago, Philly). I'm just not going to walk out of my hotel room in DTLA and just walk and walk and walk the way I would in Chicago or New York. It's too auto-centric for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
I don't understand the argument you're making. Yea, maybe some people from the suburbs are going to get a good understanding of what neighborhoods are like, sure it's possible. However, I doubt that's the case when it's just the occasional dalliances into certain neighborhoods for something special or other
My point is that one need not spend a considerable amount of time in a neighborhood to judge its urbanity. Why would you need more than a few minutes, really? I've only had "dalliances" in the Loop. I've only had "dalliances" in Center City. I've only had "dalliances" in Amsterdam. I've only had "dalliances" in Charleston, SC. Do I need to go back and live in all of those places to be able to compare their urbanity?
Pretty cool feature - wish it was a little slower though.
Those are the most cohesive stretches - there are definitely more urban streets in Los Angeles but don't have the kind of cohesion those stretches have for a mile +.
Definitely too fast, it seems timed for a car going at highway speed rather than a realistic drive on an urban street. Here's two I made. A short one in Manhattan:
Pretty cool feature - wish it was a little slower though.
Those are the most cohesive stretches - there are definitely more urban streets in Los Angeles but don't have the kind of cohesion those stretches have for a mile +.
I wish it had an adjustable speed too.
On a side note, the shorter the distance (maybe half a mile?) the more fluid that site looks. Don't try going from NYC to LA though, I tried it, and it's just a blur.
I've never been to LA, but I can't say I wouldn't mind going out there once. It is not on my "bucket list" at all though. With that in mind, I wouldn't hesitate to say LA's suburbs are more urban than Chicago's. But city to city? I have to say, once again without visiting LA the city, Chicago the city is more urban.
Maybe you can provide more streets that are "urban" in LA? With end points?
Definitely too fast, it seems timed for a car going at highway speed rather than a realistic drive on an urban street...
Very true. The shorter the distance, the better.
I picked the one (1) mile standard just because. Anything more it would have been way too choppy... anything less then I would anticipate people saying, "But that's not everything! You need to include..."
No matter what, I don't think anyone can look at those links I posted and come to the conclusion that LA is more urban than Chicago (the cities).
On a side note, the shorter the distance (maybe half a mile?) the more fluid that site looks. Don't try going from NYC to LA though, I tried it, and it's just a blur.
I've never been to LA, but I can't say I wouldn't mind going out there once. It is not on my "bucket list" at all though. With that in mind, I wouldn't hesitate to say LA's suburbs are more urban than Chicago's. But city to city? I have to say, once again without visiting LA the city, Chicago the city is more urban.
Maybe you can provide more streets that are "urban" in LA? With end points?
Sure - here are a couple more.
7th from Figueroa to San Pedro
Yucca Street from Highland to Cahuenga
Wilshire from Roberston to Santa Monica Blvd
Robertson from Beverly to Olympic
Not really trying to blow you away with the urban-ness with these, just give a slice of a couple different places in Los Angeles that have decent structure.
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That's why I specifically requested that the poll not be anonymous.
