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Old 04-04-2013, 09:41 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,893,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy View Post
I think that would be a great idea. If I was having a bad day of golf I could redeem the day by using the cyclists for target practice with my drives.
Yeah, that would be incredibly dangerous unless the trail were located at the far outer perimeter of the property.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:58 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
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Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
Yeah, that would be incredibly dangerous unless the trail were located at the far outer perimeter of the property.
How do you manage to not hit people in golf carts?
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:02 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
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Originally Posted by Maine442 View Post
How is it a waste of space if free market enterprise has determined it is the most profitable use of the land.

Golf courses have, IIUC, high fixed costs. Its possible that in a town with say, two courses, a third course might be profitible, would be so by taking share from the other two courses. The result might be higher costs all around - more than are offset by the increase in benefit to the golfers who switch. Your basic econ 101 course showing the market gives optimal results assumes costs of production are completely variable.

The existence of such fixed costs does not PROVE that the market will generate a suboptimal outcome - but it makes it possible. This is particularly a problem in retail, but could happen to golf courses as well.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:33 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
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Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
How do you manage to not hit people in golf carts?
You wait until they're out of the way. However, golf carts start and stop in time with the game. Bicycles travel at a more or less constant speed and unless you're interested in constantly yielding to golfers, you would need to stay out of the way.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:52 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,816 posts, read 10,724,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
You wait until they're out of the way. However, golf carts start and stop in time with the game. Bicycles travel at a more or less constant speed and unless you're interested in constantly yielding to golfers, you would need to stay out of the way.

In the scenario in my area, the cut off through the course will save a considerable detour (the course is a adjacent to an interstate highway, with few other bike routes across it. It would be worth taking even if one needed to regularly yield to golfers. And I imagine commuting times wont be the same as peak golf times, but I don't know.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:04 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
In the scenario in my area, the cut off through the course will save a considerable detour (the course is a adjacent to an interstate highway, with few other bike routes across it. It would be worth taking even if one needed to regularly yield to golfers. And I imagine commuting times wont be the same as peak golf times, but I don't know.
It depends on the time of year and day of the week. Mornings and late afternoons in the peak of summer will be filled with golfers.

Also, how is this course laid out? Most golf courses snake and wind around the property, making a "straight line" bike trail tough to build.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:10 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,816 posts, read 10,724,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
It depends on the time of year and day of the week. Mornings and late afternoons in the peak of summer will be filled with golfers.

Also, how is this course laid out? Most golf courses snake and wind around the property, making a "straight line" bike trail tough to build.

this is an old course (the older of the Army Navy Club courses, the one located near the Pentagon) The trail will be across a corner of the property, not right across the middle. And it will be difficult to build, because of a slope (which now that I think of it, may be why folks are not concerned about cyclists being hit by golf balls). The county is willing to bear the cost, as there will also be a road for emergency vehicles, as well as a bike trail.

Army Navy Country Club Bike Path Still on Hold | ARLnow.com
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:15 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,893,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
this is an old course (the older of the Army Navy Club courses, the one located near the Pentagon) The trail will be across a corner of the property, not right across the middle. And it will be difficult to build, because of a slope (which now that I think of it, may be why folks are not concerned about cyclists being hit by golf balls). The county is willing to bear the cost, as there will also be a road for emergency vehicles, as well as a bike trail.

Army Navy Country Club Bike Path Still on Hold | ARLnow.com
So if I'm understanding this correctly, it would hug the corner? That probably wouldn't be bad as long as they put up a net.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:28 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,269,945 times
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Originally Posted by Maine442 View Post
How is it a waste of space if free market enterprise has determined it is the most profitable use of the land.

that's funny considering most golf courses are municipally owned not privately owned. they are money losing white elephants for the most part that would not exist without public subsidies.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:38 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
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Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
that's funny considering most golf courses are municipally owned not privately owned. they are money losing white elephants for the most part that would not exist without public subsidies.
No, most courses are NOT municipally owned. Most courses are open to the public, but are controlled by private entities.

By the numbers, there are ~15,500 golf courses (public or private) in the United States. 11,581 of these courses are public, 2,449 of which are municipal.

Source: Golf Course Numbers | By The Numbers | Open Space | Parks and Recreation Magazine

As far as profits go, some municipal golf courses do amazingly well like California's Torrey Pines, Long Island's Bethpage, the entire Montgomery County, Maryland golf system, etc. etc. Many others enjoy moderate revenue. But you are correct that a not insignificant number of municipal golf courses flounder. And you know what happens? These courses are either bought and managed by other companies or razed and turned into something else, usually tract housing. As I have been saying before, the golf course market is in a state of flux, and is beginning to rebound after 5-7 years of modest (but not insignificant) decline. Usually the crappier public/municipal courses are the ones that see the bulldozer, though private clubs of all stripes (especially those with "equity members" [people who pay a bond in exchange for general membership and/or voting rights]) will sometimes get an offer from a developer they can't refuse. Clubs with declining memberships are obviously the most prone, but even relatively healthy ones will fold if the price is right.

Last edited by ElijahAstin; 04-04-2013 at 06:46 PM..
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