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Old 06-17-2013, 11:05 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,807,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
probably. golf courses eat up far more land than any other sport (if you can call it a sport) and can't be used for anything but playing golf. they are a totally useless eyesore.
No. That honor goes to Walmart.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:08 AM
 
Location: Location: Location
6,351 posts, read 7,829,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
Here in Branson there seems to be a plethora of them and they can use up to a MILLION gallons of water per day (in July). Considering that people are dying on a daily basis all over the world for lack of drinkable water, this statistic seems pretty shocking. I don't begrudge people from playing and enjoying an activity, but it would seem that there must be a better way to provide these facilities without impacting the water supply to this degree.

Here is a link, by the way, showing the figures... Johnny Walker asks, ‘How much water does a golf course use for irrigation?’ - Cybergolf

20yrsinBranson
And how, exactly, do you propose to get this water to the people who have none?
When I was a child and refused to eat, I used to get the "children starving in Europe" speech. Like every other child who has heard this old saw, I never could figure out how my eating parsnips would help those starving kids. And God help me if I suggested we pack 'em up and ship the parsnips to Europe. I'll bet those kids would rather have had a peanut butter sandwich! I don't think they got either one.

Why is it so odious to have golf courses that are a green spot in a world that seems to honor urban sprawl? I'm not a golfer. I have golfed but I'm not very good at it and I defer to people who are better at it than I. Doesn't mean that I want the courses to disappear. Let the people who want to golf, golf. Let the people who want to attend baseball/football/soccer/ games held in arenas with enormous parking lots have their pastime. And those who value entertainment have the opportunity to enjoy it in theaters built for that purpose. (How many parking spots do those venues require?)

Or perhaps we could all just sit on a park bench with our daily ration of water until we turn to dust.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:46 AM
 
108 posts, read 237,164 times
Reputation: 341
No! Golf courses, generally are a sign that the area is not blighted or economically disdavantaged.
Notice that I said: "GENERALLY"!
Sure there are some weed and dog manure golf courses that may be municipality owned or private owned that are old and largely abandoned, or so poorly kept that only very few play there.
These are typically very very old cow-pasture type "muni-dogtrack" courses that municipalities own that are in currently low-rent, blighted areas. Sixty to eighty years ago this area and surrounding neighborhoods may have been the place to live, but today you might see bars on windows of the surrounding houses, old cars on blocks in the driveway and the lawn, the area is now a high crime area and retail around the area consists of Check-cashing places, Liquor Stores, Rent To Own Stores, and Family Dollar//Dollar Stores, etc.
Sometimes the municipalities end up with these dog-tracks that were once nice courses before the War (WWII) because they fail as public courses some 55 years after becoming a public course. They were first constructed as neighborhood country clubs 80 to 100 years ago, but just as a shopping center and certain areas of town go from the "Place To Be" to "Severe Poverty, place to avoid", this ultimately happens. The public course goes bankrupt. Municipality(city) gains ownership because of back taxes and it is abandoned property so to speak. Municipality then with their "wisdom" attempts to run the course for a decade or more, catering to the low-rent golfer.....with very low green fees and such.
The problem is that the cost to run such a weed-patch course is still going to be extremely costly. It will always lose millions of dollars to run such a weed-patch. But the infinite wisdom of the idiots at the helm of said city--they believe that they owe it to their citizens to provide a low cost place for the piblic to play golf. They fail to recognize that there might be four to six "public" golf courses that are privately held and excellently managed, in near perfect order within a 40 mile radius. Sure, the green fees at other said places will be reasonable, offering monthly discounted rates or $26 to $30 per 18 hole round. The infinite wisdom of the city's council/mayor etc... is that is too expensive for "poor folks" so they keep operating the weed-patch dog track as an annual million dollar plus loss, to subsidize golf for the "poor folks", those who play the game, generally migrate quickly to one of the other better public courses. Essentially, what you have is a "cow-pasture/dog track weed infested" practice field that serves as cheap place to practice in the late afternoon, or a place a complete beginner can learn from someone else teaching them as they play, due to the limited amount of people using the facility.
In most cases, muni-dog track courses like this should be closed and the land used for better purposes.
The thing about that is those areas are so blighted and run-down that no developer or commercial builder will touch anything within miles. What are they to do build housing projects there? Raze the area and get miles of surrounding areas and build something like a new stadium site, amphitheater, or rezone for commercial and build nice commercial shopping areas......these are only possibilities if you raze and relocated the crime riddled low-rent, sect 8, mobile home, seedy industrial areas that currently exist. That is not always a possibility.
Like it or not a thriving wealthy commercial area or affluent suburb or gated residential area will bring far more to the municipalities tax digest than a blighted area with transients, homeless, drug-users, prostitutes, honky-tonks, criminals, and registered sex-offenders.

Back to the better golf courses, they certainly enhance areas that become destinations for them.
Case in point: ALABAMA , you have some of the finest Golf courses of the past 25 years, built in ALABAMA in areas that were previously underutilized. Those areas are now resort destinations that add greatly to the State of Alabama, tax revenue, both directly and thru visitors to the State of Alabama. South Carolina coast also has many of the world's finest courses that have been built in the last fifty years. My husband and I own a vacation home on Hilton Head Island.
There are more ways to view it than simply land that is used only by golfers.
You do want the affluent, deep pocket, tourists and residents.
The same cannot be said for the excessive, muni-dog tracks, that have outlived there purpose and are simply a burdensome cost to a municipality/city that may be near bankruptcy or operating at a deficit!
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, AUSTINtx
3,582 posts, read 5,310,825 times
Reputation: 2205
Austin has been trying to decide what to do with its municipal golf course, affectionately known as 'muny.'

Looks like there are 67,000 rounds a year played on it times $20 each for a total of $1.34M. Add in other revenues and let's say a round $2M.

Thing is the golf course covers 500 acres and is less than two miles west of DT. Conservatively this land is worth $1M/acre but probably closer to $2M. Just the lost property tax revenue @ 2.5% annually is $12.5M on the low end, but probably closer to $25M. Given the increase housing costs in Austin this is a no-brainer. I say sell it to the highest bidder and zone appropriately. With the increase tax revenues there will be enough to build a golf course just outside of town in short order.
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:37 PM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,005,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
Austin has been trying to decide what to do with its municipal golf course, affectionately known as 'muny.'

Looks like there are 67,000 rounds a year played on it times $20 each for a total of $1.34M. Add in other revenues and let's say a round $2M.

Thing is the golf course covers 500 acres and is less than two miles west of DT. Conservatively this land is worth $1M/acre but probably closer to $2M. Just the lost property tax revenue @ 2.5% annually is $12.5M on the low end, but probably closer to $25M. Given the increase housing costs in Austin this is a no-brainer. I say sell it to the highest bidder and zone appropriately. With the increase tax revenues there will be enough to build a golf course just outside of town in short order.
But, once that land is built out, it's probably going to stay that way for 100 years or more. There are probably better options than paving over (even artificial) green space.
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:04 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
29,806 posts, read 54,470,896 times
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The one a few blocks from us was definitely not created by cutting down forests, and they only have to water a few times in July/August, because the rest of the year it rains. Much better use of the land than a big box store and parking lot, storage units, or even condos.

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Old 08-22-2014, 02:10 PM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,194,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
The one a few blocks from us was definitely not created by cutting down forests, and they only have to water a few times in July/August, because the rest of the year it rains. Much better use of the land than a big box store and parking lot, storage units, or even condos.

Beautiful looking course. But do you really think that they did not cut down trees to create those fairways?
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Old 08-23-2014, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,569 posts, read 17,647,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
probably. golf courses eat up far more land than any other sport (if you can call it a sport) and can't be used for anything but playing golf. they are a totally useless eyesore.



Golf courses suck golf balls and souls

Municipal golf courses: Sucking up the public's green | StarTribune.com
You could say the same about soccer fields, football stadiums, baseball or tennis courts. Let alone bike paths. At lest golf courses are pretty to look at. Well, once you get over the people on them in golf clothes.
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Old 08-23-2014, 05:19 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,834,426 times
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The great thing about golf courses is that they eat up land which would otherwise be filled with houses and apartments, which in turn would be filled by people (especially people with children) demanding more municipal services.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:53 AM
 
358 posts, read 359,974 times
Reputation: 306
What about disc golf courses? There are a bunch of courses in my area.

Disc golf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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