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Old 03-30-2013, 10:53 AM
 
Location: San Diego
35,266 posts, read 32,223,021 times
Reputation: 19814

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
attractive for who? sure if you can afford the $100 average entrance fee. and you have to bring your own equipment and set of golf clubs which will cost you hundreds more. paying $50 to $200 a pop for the 'privilege' of hitting around a little ball with a stick for a day seems pretty ludicrous to me. not many can afford to do that. and the aesthetics are questionable at best considering golf courses are little more than massively overgrown lawns that have a very sterile and artificial fake appearance about them.no argument there.
comparing the magnificent intricately landscaped gardens at the Palace of Versailles to a lame golf course? good one lol. that would be an insult to Louis the XIV and the French.
You hate golf, we get it. In a City like SD golf is BIG. It's a tourist town and it means a lot of money for the city. Courses are about one of the last barriers to making SD look like LA. High density population with a crappy transit system. I don't play often but I use the course for running as they have a marvelous track around the outside of it. The other one I visit has an equestrian center (I'm sure you hate that too) built into the middle of it. Plus you can rent out the clubhouses for parties of any type.

Not every square inch of land has to be turned into an eventual slum. If you can't afford to live near one, well, bad news, you are not ENTITLED.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:26 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,893,589 times
Reputation: 4691
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
attractive for who? sure if you can afford the $100 average entrance fee. and you have to bring your own equipment and set of golf clubs which will cost you hundreds more. paying $50 to $200 a pop for the 'privilege' of hitting around a little ball with a stick for a day seems pretty ludicrous to me. not many can afford to do that. and the aesthetics are questionable at best considering golf courses are little more than massively overgrown lawns that have a very sterile and artificial fake appearance about them.
You're absolutely wrong about the "average" cost of playing golf. Most mid-range daily-fee courses are in the $40-60 range, and some really cheap munis can be played for at "regular rates" for as low as $20. If you go on golfnow.com and scour for deals, you can REALLY save a ton of money. I once played 18 holes, with cart, at a top-quality course for $15. And again, there is a surprisingly huge contingent of working class, inner-city golfers who love the game as much as any privileged country club suburbanite.

If you don't like golf, that's fine. If you think municipalities should think longer and harder before propping up a local golf course, that's fine too. Some muni courses are highly successful. Others struggle, and the ones that struggle the most, usually shut down and are bulldozed over into tract housing.

The number of golf courses in this country is starting to shrink, which is probably a good thing, given that many major metropolitan markets are on the "saturated" side. But the number of golfers is rebounding. I definitely agree that golf's "allocation" can (and most certainly will) be more efficient. But asking for the prohibition of a game enjoyed by nearly 10% of Americans, a game that spans all races, colors, religions, and socioeconomic backgrounds, is beyond ridiculous.

Last edited by ElijahAstin; 03-30-2013 at 11:35 AM..
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:27 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,269,945 times
Reputation: 2924
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
You're absolutely wrong about the "average" cost of playing golf. Most mid-range daily-fee courses are in the $40-60 range, and some really cheap munis can be played for at "regular rates" for as low as $20. If you go on golfnow.com and scour for deals, you can REALLY save a ton of money. I once played 18 holes, with cart, at a top-quality course for $15. And again, there is a surprisingly huge contingent of working class, inner-city golfers who love the game as much as any privileged country club suburbanite.
well I wouldn't golf even if it were free, since watching paint dry would be more interesting. I don't think I know anyone who plays it but assuming you are someone who has an interest in golf I think you are conveniently ignoring a few things. unless you intend to walk to every hole lugging around a 40 pound golf club bag on shoulders you will need to rent a golf cart. unless you intend to use a tree branch for hitting the golf balls you will also need to buy your own golf clubs, which go for hundreds to thousands of dollars for a set, or find a place that rents them. they don't provide you with free golf clubs. the cost of all the equipment rentals, golf cart and entrance fees could easily put you over $100 per person, but even $50 or $15 would be way too much for me. if you went golfing every weekend you would be paying hundreds of dollars a month. its a very expensive hobby.
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,080 posts, read 16,109,257 times
Reputation: 12652
$100 for a cart, no need to rent, most green fees at pricey places include the use of a golf cart anyway.
Clubs are cheap assuming you don't have to have titanium/carbon. Pick 'em up at a garage sale, craigslist, used sporting goods store.

Just because you can buy a $200,000 Ferrari doesn't mean you need to in order to get from A to B. Same goes for golf. Also, some people would rather work a second job to drive a nice car. Other people would rather get an education, a decent job, and then spend money on hobbies. Personally I think golf isn't much fun. I'd rather spend $30 on gas to go hiking than $30 on green fees. I have two sleeping bags which total $1,000, packs $500, $80 MSR whisperlite I never use because the Esbit is lighter, so on and so on. The expedition pack and -25F bag have been a huge waste of money. I've used them twice in five years, or about $500 per use o_O. If I liked golf, doing it for most of year for the amount I spend on a sleeping bag and pack I've used twice sounds like a steal.
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:59 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,269,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
$100 for a cart, no need to rent, most green fees at pricey places include the use of a golf cart anyway.
Clubs are cheap assuming you don't have to have titanium/carbon. Pick 'em up at a garage sale, craigslist, used sporting goods store.
you can do that too, but you might want to consider picking up a respirator while you're at it.

Lymphoma In Avid Golfers | LIVESTRONG.COM
Frequent exposure to chemicals used in the maintenance of golf courses can increase your chances of developing non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, according to research published in the American Journal of Industrial Medicine.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Personally I think golf isn't much fun.
luckily for you (and me)...we're not golfers.


U. S. National Cancer Institute

Suggestive evidence of major excesses of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, brain, colorectal and prostate cancers in golf course maintenance workers and superintendents exposed to high concentrations of carcinogenic herbicides and fungicides; runoff from golf courses can result in heavy contamination of watersheds.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:18 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,893,589 times
Reputation: 4691
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
well I wouldn't golf even if it were free, since watching paint dry would be more interesting. I don't think I know anyone who plays it but assuming you are someone who has an interest in golf I think you are conveniently ignoring a few things. unless you intend to walk to every hole lugging around a 40 pound golf club bag on shoulders you will need to rent a golf cart. unless you intend to use a tree branch for hitting the golf balls you will also need to buy your own golf clubs, which go for hundreds to thousands of dollars for a set, or find a place that rents them. they don't provide you with free golf clubs. the cost of all the equipment rentals, golf cart and entrance fees could easily put you over $100 per person, but even $50 or $15 would be way too much for me. if you went golfing every weekend you would be paying hundreds of dollars a month. its a very expensive hobby.
The price I'm talking about includes cart. In fairness, I'm from the Northeast, there golf courses are cheaper due in part to the supply/demand balance, better-suited golf course climate, plenty of water, etc. etc. The environmental ramifications are definitely more troublesome out West. The solution is not prohibition but better management of space and expenditure of resources.

But again, you're wrong about golf having to be an expensive hobby. You can get a bag of quality used clubs for $500, which is a fixed cost that only needs to be spent once every 5-7 years. Balls can be ordered in bulk for $1 each. Obviously golf is very expensive played "a la carte." Regardless, I'm aware it takes a lot of time, and it's not, strictly speaking, cheap, but your "typical" mid-scale public course golfer who plays ~20 times a year, the total cost will come to ~$100 monthly, which is not a ton to spend if golf is your primary hobby. Avid players can get unlimited greens fees at a local muni for about $1,000 annually. I know of a lot of lower middle class blue collar players who make the investment (and they aren't irresponsible spenders either) because they love the game.

So once again, golf is far and away from a "rich man's game" these days. It obviously takes a lot of money to buy the finest equipment and play on the finest courses, but loads of "everymen" go out and play on a regular basis at a reasonable rate.

As far as watching golf goes, I actually find it boring as well. But playing it is a completely different animal. Get a bucket of balls one day at a driving range or drop $10 and play 9 holes at a pitch and putt. If you still don't like it, that's totally okay. But you do seem willfully ignorant about the game in many respects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
you can do that too, but you might want to consider picking up a respirator while you're at it.

Lymphoma In Avid Golfers | LIVESTRONG.COM
Frequent exposure to chemicals used in the maintenance of golf courses can increase your chances of developing non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, according to research published in the American Journal of Industrial Medicine.
Quote:
However, insufficient scientific evidence exists to conclusively support the link between an avid golfer's exposure to pesticides and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma
LOL great reading comprehension.

From your other source:
Quote:
Suggestive evidence of major excesses of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, brain, colorectal and prostate cancers in golf course maintenance workers and superintendents exposed to high concentrations of carcinogenic herbicides and fungicides; runoff from golf courses can result in heavy contamination watersheds.
Never minding the fact that this is "suggestive" evidence (which means a weak correlation that remains unsubstantiated by the scientific method) even the most avid golfer doesn't get anywhere near the same exposure to pesticides as golf course maintenance works and superintendents, who directly handle the pesticides they use on the course. Also, golf course pesticides (like other pesticides) have become much safer over the years as scientists have figured out ways to keep pests out while lowering carcinogen levels.

You're really grasping here.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:34 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,269,945 times
Reputation: 2924
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post



LOL great reading comprehension.

From your other source:

Never minding the fact that this is "suggestive" evidence (which means a weak correlation that remains unsubstantiated by the scientific method) even the most avid golfer doesn't get anywhere near the same exposure to pesticides as golf course maintenance works and superintendents, who directly handle the pesticides they use on the course. Also, golf course pesticides (like other pesticides) have become much safer over the years as scientists have figured out ways to keep pests out while lowering carcinogen levels.

You're really grasping here.

did you forget to mention this part of the article?

Golf Courses

Golf courses are among the most toxically treated areas. A report by the New York State Attorney General's Office entitled "Toxic Fairway" observed the use of pesticides on 52 Long Island, New York golf courses and determined these courses applied 50,000 lbs. of pesticides in one year -- four to seven times more than the average amount of pesticides used in agriculture. Of the 30 most frequently used golf-course turf pesticides, 19 can cause cancer, including the herbicide 2, 4-D, reports the National Coalition Against the Misuse of Pesticides.

Evidence

A study published in the May 1996 edition of the "American Journal of Industrial Medicine," by a team led by Burton C. Kross, observed the cause of death in 686 deceased members of the Golf Course Superintendents Association of America, or GCSAA. Researchers compared the death certificates of former GCSAA white-male members and white males in the general population. Results indicated that GCSAA former members had higher incidences of mortality for four cancer types: brain, prostate, large intestine and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Higher cancer rates, in this study, were attributed to exposure to toxic pesticides, chemicals and herbicides used to keep the fairways green and lush, according to the Natural Cancer Cures website.

Lymphoma In Avid Golfers | LIVESTRONG.COM
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:36 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,893,589 times
Reputation: 4691
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
did you forget to mention this part of the article?

Golf Courses

Golf courses are among the most toxically treated areas. A report by the New York State Attorney General's Office entitled "Toxic Fairway" observed the use of pesticides on 52 Long Island, New York golf courses and determined these courses applied 50,000 lbs. of pesticides in one year -- four to seven times more than the average amount of pesticides used in agriculture. Of the 30 most frequently used golf-course turf pesticides, 19 can cause cancer, including the herbicide 2, 4-D, reports the National Coalition Against the Misuse of Pesticides.

Evidence

A study published in the May 1996 edition of the "American Journal of Industrial Medicine," by a team led by Burton C. Kross, observed the cause of death in 686 deceased members of the Golf Course Superintendents Association of America, or GCSAA. Researchers compared the death certificates of former GCSAA white-male members and white males in the general population. Results indicated that GCSAA former members had higher incidences of mortality for four cancer types: brain, prostate, large intestine and non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. Higher cancer rates, in this study, were attributed to exposure to toxic pesticides, chemicals and herbicides used to keep the fairways green and lush, according to the Natural Cancer Cures website

Lymphoma In Avid Golfers | LIVESTRONG.COM
But not high enough to "conclusively" support the link, especially given that even an avid golfer like myself, who plays perhaps 40 times a year, ends up with exponentially less exposure to the pesticides.
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:57 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,269,945 times
Reputation: 2924
these should be standard equipment in every golf bag. if you like to golf, don't leave home without it. better yet, stay at home and play it on your Xbox or Nintendo Wii.


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Old 03-31-2013, 04:17 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,442 posts, read 9,893,589 times
Reputation: 4691
Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
these should be standard equipment in every golf bag. if you like to golf, don't leave home without it. better yet, stay at home and play it on your Xbox or Nintendo Wii.

I hope you don't drink diet soda or eat fried foods or leave the house without wearing sunscreen or do a number of other everyday activities in which the general carcinogen exposure levels have far more conclusive links to deadly diseases.

But I figured out you're being obstinate just to get a rise out of people, so I'm finished feeding your BS.
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