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Old 03-22-2013, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,061 posts, read 16,070,870 times
Reputation: 12636

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Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
Where I'm at, a lot of people my age want to move Chicago or NYC. When I was in NYC last week I met some people my age who lived in manhattan that said they would never leave.
And lots of people want to move out.

Creative Class is a very large segment. You've got everyone from starving artists working day jobs to make ends meet to cardiologists to business execs. They're all creative class.

The point Florida was conceding, which the OP grossly misrepresented, was that attracting the creative class doesn't really improve other areas of the city. Take Apple. Very big, very profitable company, but how many jobs does it really create outside of the creative class specifically in Cupertino where it's headquartered? Very few. You get some gardeners who maintain the grounds, FedEx drivers to deliver packages, some restaurants. So there's some indirect jobs. The direct benefit, however, is very, very minimal. Even when those jobs are in the US, they're probably not going to be in the same city. Elk Grove used to do a lot of manufacturing back when Apple was a smaller company. Now it's mostly done in Asia, although Elk Groves campus is picking up. Point is, those aren't jobs in Cupertino. Even when the companies are major manufacturers (or at least have major demands for manufacturing) more likely than not the jobs won't be located in the same city their Creative Class employees are.

Other companies like Twitter (and San Francisco's Twitter tax break to attract them) are obviously going to have less impact. Contrast that to Facebook. Again, not a huge amount of "trickle down." going on there. And rather than getting tax cuts and incentives, Menlo Park is actually demanding that Facebook pay $8.5 million dollars to improve city infrastructure to alleviate the impact of the additional 3,000 employees they are adding.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,257 posts, read 26,226,229 times
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I'm curious as to what the other "classes" are. I presume there has to be more than one since the word "class" implies a division between at least two different groups.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:44 AM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,004,178 times
Reputation: 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I'm curious as to what the other "classes" are. I presume there has to be more than one since the word "class" implies a division between at least two different groups.
From Florida's response:
Quote:
creative, service, and blue collar
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:48 AM
 
7,593 posts, read 9,446,457 times
Reputation: 8954
There are only so many pretentious restaurants that one can open in any given city that will survive a few years, especially at exhorbitant prices. In this day and age, few people can afford to eat out all the time..
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,257 posts, read 26,226,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
From Florida's response:
Is it just me or does that not sound the slightest bit self-congratulatory?
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,105,724 times
Reputation: 3979
I see Joel Kotkin or Wendell Cox's name attached to an article and I immediately stop taking it seriously (though I could probably say that about Richard Florida too, for the opposite reasons). They are basically sprawl-cheerleaders, while Florida is an over-gentrification cheerleader.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:34 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,983,346 times
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Florida came to Dayton twice. His initial lecture blew away the movers and shakers, and they brought him back for a consultancy gig.

His stuff is ok as far as it goes, but not a silver bullet....his work is descripitive, but difficult to apply as an economic development policy (which I think was oversold when he put his consultant hat on).
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:39 AM
 
Location: "Daytonnati"
4,245 posts, read 5,983,346 times
Reputation: 2967
For places like Dayton, I llike the "Rust Belt Chic" concept, which is sort of different than what Florida is talking about.

Here's an an article that sort of talks about this.

Quote:
The "rust is chic" movement has been around for a while, but thanks to blogs and online magazines, such as RustWire.com, a certain fascination with places that have fallen on hard times like the Rust Belt -- which stretches from the Midwest through the mid-Atlantic and up into the Northeast -- has taken hold.

Part of it is the scruffy, industrial look. It may also be a rejection of cities with gleaming condo towers, bistros and boutiques that were once so trendy yet now seem so frothy and fake in the wake of the economic meltdown.

But the other fascination is the defiance these Rust Belt cities have shown. Many of them, such as the gritty cities Bourdain visits, reflect a rebellious attitude. Youngstown, Ohio, has to be the poster child of this stance.

Youngstown, Braddock PA, and I can think of a few others (Scranton, Johnstown, Troy NY, Waterbury Mass, etc). Places like this are the ones that interest me.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,411 times
Reputation: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
Where I'm at, a lot of people my age want to move Chicago or NYC. When I was in NYC last week I met some people my age who lived in manhattan that said they would never leave.
Manhattan is an interesting place....a lot of people who come from places like where you're at, and I can definitely understand that...they grew up not experiencing the big crazy city, so they migrate on over there. More so probably for employment/college opportunities, but also for the "fun" of urban lifestyle.

However, travel to the outer boroughs where 80% of the city lives and you'll probably find a lot more people who have had it with the city life. The parking problems, crowded transit, traffic, cost of living, inconveniences, climate, city government, density, petty crime, commute times, attitude of a lot of people and much more....it gets old. Of course I don't speak for everyone, and I don't mean to over generalize...every place, even North Carolina in my example, has it's own issues...but the change in lifestyle would be immensely worth it to me. Now, its not all bad of course, the city has it's advantages....c'mon we all know that, job market is pretty solid, the food and selection of food is top notch, the place is fun as hell to hang out and do stuff and...well....it's New York! It'll always be my home, and I'd be back all the time to visit...but it's a totally different perspective to a lot of people if you've lived here your whole life in the "rest" of NYC outside of Manhattan below 110th street (and the other gentrified hipstervilles in the outer boroughs).
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,061 posts, read 16,070,870 times
Reputation: 12636
Interesting in that you want to observe them and how losing 90% of your population can look, or interesting in that you actually would want to live there?
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