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I know what you mean! Most people ignore the city and just live in the suburbs, but let's itemize the problems suburbanites have. In summary:
a. Lost population and educated people who leave for better places losing relationships.
b. Low density housing creates sprawl, traffic, and wasting gas.
c. Vacant downtown and lack of a focal point for social gatherings.
d. Masses of poor people without jobs and higher neighborhood crime rates with weak education.
e. Uniqueness and historical neighborhoods blighted and demolished rather than kept up.
So these problems can be solved by arts investment or not? I think it helps with problem (c), but there would need to be more job creation to put a dent in (a), (b), or (d), and (e) is never coming back. When I think about good jobs, the arts do not really come to mind, because work is intermittent and pay is low. People in suburban bars who talk about moving probably have issues with (a), (b), (c), and (e) but when they mention (d) it is in a detached way, full of sympathy, but not directly afflicted.
The worst of these problems are item (d) and this is rightfully much of the focus for revitalization. But is the south side of Chicago really similar to Detroit? In what ways are they helped by Chicago's superior downtown, entertainment and public transportation? Is is better to be Chicago poor or Detroit poor? Which place is more meritocratic? Which has happier people?
I think the city of Chicago is lucky to have so many nice areas within its borders, so that they have a tax base to provide services, and even invest in new things like Millennium Park. This makes the city able to create better infrastructure than Detroit, where the nice areas are outside the borders. And it all begins with the fact that Detroit's primary industry (auto manufacturing) quickly left the city limits whereas Chicago's (finance) remained inside. These industries went in different directions and so went these cities.
I agree, tho there are poor everywhere and bad parts of many great cities in the U.S., the thing is in Detroit there aren't many nice areas within the city currently, that is why I brought up Chicago since it is also in the Midwest. While there is a lot of crime in Chicago the city is still very vibrant in many areas... even in patches of the south side.
Last time when I was in Chicago I met locals my age who had been born and raised there and proud of it, in Michigan it is more of shame for Detroit. One of my good friends just move to NYC and another to San Francisco... when they were here of course they were frustrated with the area, mind you they lived in nice suburbs as well(big house etc), I don't mean for the negativity to show through my posts but sometimes I go on about it lol.
I don't agree with the notion that the arts will save the city one bit, which is why in my first post was like if you want people to invest or try to live in Detroit, you just gotta have some of the basics. I have some family in Detroit and the bs they put up with is just mind blowing. My dad ask his sister why she just doesn't leave...
About the poor, it may sound cruel but instead of just sitting there some of them have to help themselves. I feel bad for the kids born into those situations because it is so easy to get trapped in that lifestyle. When I was in NYC, I met these Nigerians who ran this huge club... I became friendly with them asked them how they got there etc. They told me they came to NYC with nothing except a degree, these guys were my age and within two years of being in NYC they own properties and rent them out to make money and ran two clubs. That made me think if they come from Africa and get things going like that, why do the poor in our country mainly stay trapped?
Where I'm at, a lot of people my age want to move Chicago or NYC. When I was in NYC last week I met some people my age who lived in manhattan that said they would never leave.
It's one thing to live in a 500 sq ft apartment when you're single and 25. It's a whole other story when you're 35, married and have a couple of kids. And unless you want your kids to graduate as illiterates, you need to send your kids to private school in Manhattan which is $20K+ per kid per year.
I spent a lot of time in New York in my 20s. I didn't actually live there, but I was there for work a lot. Loved it. In my 30s now, married, kids, the works....you couldn't pay me enough to live there today.
And that's the part Florida doesn't take into account. You can't have a city populated only by hip 25 year olds who ride their bike to work. You need a city that allows the 35, 45, 55 year old to prosper as well. The 35-55 year old is the engine of the economy. This group buys houses, cars, furniture, etc. And if a city can't keep this group happy and satisfied, it will not prosper.
About the poor, it may sound cruel but instead of just sitting there some of them have to help themselves. I feel bad for the kids born into those situations because it is so easy to get trapped in that lifestyle. When I was in NYC, I met these Nigerians who ran this huge club... I became friendly with them asked them how they got there etc. They told me they came to NYC with nothing except a degree, these guys were my age and within two years of being in NYC they own properties and rent them out to make money and ran two clubs. That made me think if they come from Africa and get things going like that, why do the poor in our country mainly stay trapped?
Because the poor here don't have degrees, a means to get a degree, a lot of money, and definitely don't have the necessary education to make a sound investment. One thing to note about immigrants who are allowed to move to the US or obtain vistas is that they are usually highly skilled or educated. In their home countries, they are definitely outliers. That's particularly problematic for a lot of developing countries because instead of reinvesting into their home country, many high skilled or educated people move to more developed countries where there is the potential to earn more and have a higher standard of living.
I know Phoenix got sucked into this school of thought for a while. Seemed to lose track that people move to Arizona for the weather, the weather and the weather. Just because we have a small pocket of gay neighborhoods, an art district and a little bit of interesting architecture is not going to convince your typical suburbanite from the midwest or California to move here.
Grew up around Detroit and Toledo, there is not much that could ever attract me to go back to visit or even think of moving back. Both cities could become the coolest, hippest cities in America and I still would not want to head back. The weather stinks and they don't have mountains anywhere near them.
The weather is a major reason why I would not move to Phoenix or Tucson (100+ degrees from May to September with maybe precious few exceptions occasionally in the mid-upper 90's; too dry). Different strokes for different folks I guess. I would imagine a gay person would be very cautious of being out of the closet outside of that small pocket neighborhood in Phoenix. Maybe the best bet for southern AZ is to lure more baseball fans...those spring games draw a lot of people. Hand out realty brochures as they enter the stadiums!
The creative class approach is probably not right for that region. You are right! There is just too much competition in the southwest region...Bay Area, LA area, San Diego, Denver, and even Santa Fe to some degree.
Because the poor here don't have degrees, a means to get a degree, a lot of money, and definitely don't have the necessary education to make a sound investment. One thing to note about immigrants who are allowed to move to the US or obtain vistas is that they are usually highly skilled or educated. In their home countries, they are definitely outliers. That's particularly problematic for a lot of developing countries because instead of reinvesting into their home country, many high skilled or educated people move to more developed countries where there is the potential to earn more and have a higher standard of living.
Or not.
My brother-in-law came over with an eighth-grade education. He owns his own landscaping company doing mostly commercial landscaping projects. No bachelor's degree, but a couple associate's degrees. Prior to landscaping, he was a mechanic but couldn't pass the certification here because his language and math were too weak, Mexico's public schools are worse even than ours.
The poor will always have to help themselves as no one else will do it. They might get welfare and free educational training, but ultimately it will always be up to them to try and get out of poverty or not.
My brother-in-law came over with an eighth-grade education. He owns his own landscaping company doing mostly commercial landscaping projects. No bachelor's degree, but a couple associate's degrees. Prior to landscaping, he was a mechanic but couldn't pass the certification here because his language and math were too weak, Mexico's public schools are worse even than ours.
The poor will always have to help themselves as no one else will do it. They might get welfare and free educational training, but ultimately it will always be up to them to try and get out of poverty or not.
Or yes because it's you know, like that in every other developed country because a lot of people want to emigrate to one. It's a lot harder to emigrate to the US legally now than it was a century ago and the workers who can either obtain an work vista and work here in a high needs field such as STEM for a couple years and either go back or apply or they apply directly for citizenship. These people make just as much money as domestic citizens in the same field, but they are often limited to working for a single or set of employers for the duration of the visit. The key to moving to another country is that you have some sort of skill or talent that is desirable.
Just to clarify: are you blaming poor people for being poor?
Lots of people are in poverty because of medical conditions. If you're mentally retarded, have cerebral palsy (even without mental retardation), have some severe injury, etc that can limit employment opportunities. Others just come from bad backgrounds and have a lot more to overcome. I am blaming them for lousing parents? Not exactly. Life isn't fair and we all get that. Others, yes, they choose to be poor. I still wouldn't say I'm blaming them. Being poor isn't a bad thing, it's just a thing.
[quote=Katiana;28800028]I am from Pittsburgh. I left years ago to get married, not because I disliked the place. (Just for the record) Anyway, Pittsburgh always had the "eds and meds" piece of the economy. It just wasn't at the forefront when the steel industry was at its height. Jonas Salk and his colleagues invented the polio vaccine at the U of Pittsburgh, my alma mater, in the early 1950s, for example.
There really was no growth at all, in fact, there was popluation loss both in the city and the suburbs from ~ 1970 until about 2011]
Just curious if you have any insight how much the energy boom from the Marcellus Shale and other fracking plays has brought new people and wealth to Pitt.? Is Energy sector becoming anywhere near the importance of "eds and meds"? (I love that term!).
To be totally silly here are some more:
Washington DC = Eds and Feds
San Fran = Eds and Teds (hey, don't be gay, I didn't mean that; the TED conference of course)
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