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Old 03-22-2013, 06:34 AM
 
2,955 posts, read 6,803,237 times
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Richard Florida Concedes the Limits of the Creative Class | Joel Kotkin

So being young, hip and cool doesn't create job growth or help rust belt cities come back to life. Think a bunch of cities got sucked into Florida's ideas and even worse some shelled out a lot of money to lure the elusive "creative class".

Think it is interesting that the originator of probably the most popular idea of the last decade in urban planning conceding that it just did not work. Wonder if Florida will return his consulting fees to some of these poor burgs.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
389 posts, read 400,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grmi66 View Post
Richard Florida Concedes the Limits of the Creative Class | Joel Kotkin

So being young, hip and cool doesn't create job growth or help rust belt cities come back to life. Think a bunch of cities got sucked into Florida's ideas and even worse some shelled out a lot of money to lure the elusive "creative class".

Think it is interesting that the originator of probably the most popular idea of the last decade in urban planning conceding that it just did not work. Wonder if Florida will return his consulting fees to some of these poor burgs.
Please(not to you), but there are other things certain rust belt cities(excluding Chicago) have to improve before worrying about luring people within the vicinities. Safety being the first one, what good is walking around or transit if you'll get mugged or worse... City officials need to show some kind of will to do the right things or evidence of the stop of decline. Also more than a few good neighborhoods would help, some signs of life lol.

Idk I could go on and on, I just don't like the notion of young people supposedly having to move to a crappy place hoping it turns around. You do have some who are like that which is good, however, most will go where they see a vibrant successful city.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,896 posts, read 7,660,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
Please(not to you), but there are other things certain rust belt cities(excluding Chicago) have to improve before worrying about luring people within the vicinities. Safety being the first one, what good is walking around or transit if you'll get mugged or worse... City officials need to show some kind of will to do the right things or evidence of the stop of decline. Also more than a few good neighborhoods would help, some signs of life lol.

Idk I could go on and on, I just don't like the notion of young people supposedly having to move to a crappy place hoping it turns around. You do have some who are like that which is good, however, most will go where they see a vibrant successful city.
Why exclude Chicago?
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
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Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Why exclude Chicago?
Compare Chicago to Detroit... In Chicago you can live on the north side and be in a different world than the crime pockets on the south or west sides.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Originally Posted by weteath View Post
Compare Chicago to Detroit... In Chicago you can live on the north side and be in a different world than the crime pockets on the south or west sides.
That's pretty much what the criticism means. The creative class clustering in the yuppie neighborhoods of Chicago doesn't really benefit the crime pockets. There's very little trickle down. So why exclude Chicago?

I do think it is a slight over generalization, however. The creative class doesn't really _need_ a whole lot of government hand holders. They don't commit a lot of crimes, they don't need welfare, they pay a lot in taxes. Those tax dollars can be used to trickle down. Unfortunately, they're generally not. the Florida model is to use the taxes to drive fiscalization of land-use... basically Redevelopment and Renewal projects to attract more creative class. The free market is perfectly adequate at providing that.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:15 AM
 
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I know Phoenix got sucked into this school of thought for a while. Seemed to lose track that people move to Arizona for the weather, the weather and the weather. Just because we have a small pocket of gay neighborhoods, an art district and a little bit of interesting architecture is not going to convince your typical suburbanite from the midwest or California to move here.

Grew up around Detroit and Toledo, there is not much that could ever attract me to go back to visit or even think of moving back. Both cities could become the coolest, hippest cities in America and I still would not want to head back. The weather stinks and they don't have mountains anywhere near them.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
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Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
That's pretty much what the criticism means. The creative class clustering in the yuppie neighborhoods of Chicago doesn't really benefit the crime pockets. There's very little trickle down. So why exclude Chicago?

I do think it is a slight over generalization, however. The creative class doesn't really _need_ a whole lot of government hand holders. They don't commit a lot of crimes, they don't need welfare, they pay a lot in taxes. Those tax dollars can be used to trickle down. Unfortunately, they're generally not. the Florida model is to use the taxes to drive fiscalization of land-use... basically Redevelopment and Renewal projects to attract more creative class. The free market is perfectly adequate at providing that.
I consider myself creative class or whatever, why move to a city that pretty much feels/looks dead as opposed to Chicago or NYC? That is my main point, it's like when I was with a friend in bushwick/williamsburgh... when I got there I thought where I arrived in particular was a dump, but at least other young people were walking around and I was a subway ride away from DUMBO or manhattan.

Chicago does have similar type of neighborhoods that are cheap dont look the greatest, but are safe and short ride into downtown/northside or good spots of southside.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,778 times
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I find it interesting, maybe just anecdotal about my life and the people I know...but as a 24 year old IT guy in the "creative class" of the New York City metro, several of my friends in the same boat and a lot of people I've met in the field all seem to want to get out of here...and NOT to somewhere for mass transit, "vibrancy", walkability, or any of those things that some people would have you believe every well payed twenty-something in America is yearning for. In fact, I find it to be quite opposite, and those are a few of things I find people trying to get away from. Perhaps it's our own bias since we come from overcrowded and ridiculously expensive NYC, but for myself and a lot of others I know and have met, we want more land for less money, bigger homes for less money, more roads to drive on, lower density development, lower cost of living, decent access to "fun" amenities in not too far off city areas, much easier "drivabilty" with less tolls, tolled crossings, congestion, dilapidated roads and infrastructure and virtually no need to have to cram onto crowded and uncomfortable mass transit for commuting to avoid hundreds of dollars a month in parking expenses and a place where I can buy a new car and not watch it get slowly "New Yorked" or destroyed. But the main basis of it all is JOBS, where the money is. I've spent a long time thinking about this, and the most realistic place I feel that I'll end up is in the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill "triangle" area of North Carolina, kind of fits the bill perfectly for myself and a lot of others that I know. My goal is to stay at home here in New York to get as much experience in the field, hopefully see some nice pay increases and pay down my student loan as soon as possible, so that I can make my strategic move somewhere like NC within the next 10 years.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
389 posts, read 400,717 times
Reputation: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
I find it interesting, maybe just anecdotal about my life and the people I know...but as a 24 year old IT guy in the "creative class" of the New York City metro, several of my friends in the same boat and a lot of people I've met in the field all seem to want to get out of here...and NOT to somewhere for mass transit, "vibrancy", walkability, or any of those things that some people would have you believe every well payed twenty-something in America is yearning for. In fact, I find it to be quite opposite, and those are a few of things I find people trying to get away from. Perhaps it's our own bias since we come from overcrowded and ridiculously expensive NYC, but for myself and a lot of others I know and have met, we want more land for less money, bigger homes for less money, more roads to drive on, lower density development, lower cost of living, decent access to "fun" amenities in not too far off city areas, much easier "drivabilty" with less tolls, tolled crossings, congestion, dilapidated roads and infrastructure and virtually no need to have to cram onto crowded and uncomfortable mass transit for commuting to avoid hundreds of dollars a month in parking expenses and a place where I can buy a new car and not watch it get slowly "New Yorked" or destroyed. But the main basis of it all is JOBS, where the money is. I've spent a long time thinking about this, and the most realistic place I feel that I'll end up is in the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill "triangle" area of North Carolina, kind of fits the bill perfectly for myself and a lot of others that I know. My goal is to stay at home here in New York to get as much experience in the field, hopefully see some nice pay increases and pay down my student loan as soon as possible, so that I can make my strategic move somewhere like NC within the next 10 years.
Where I'm at, a lot of people my age want to move Chicago or NYC. When I was in NYC last week I met some people my age who lived in manhattan that said they would never leave.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
5,910 posts, read 7,027,898 times
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It seems reasonable to include Florida's response.

Did I Abandon My Creative Class Theory? Not So Fast, Joel Kotkin - The Daily Beast
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