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View Poll Results: Which of these Sans feel the most urban
San Jose 7 8.75%
San Diego 60 75.00%
San Antonio 13 16.25%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-29-2013, 03:49 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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San Jose doesn't make the list:

California's Best And Worst Big City Downtowns | California Planning & Development Report

Is Fresno as bad as the article makes it out? I'm skeptical that San Diego could be as good as San Francisco, but it must say something about it doing well it can tie. Off-topic but this is a good read you probably have read:

http://www.cp-dr.com/node/1782

wish there was a similar article for around here.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,124,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
San Jose doesn't make the list:

California's Best And Worst Big City Downtowns | California Planning & Development Report

Is Fresno as bad as the article makes it out? I'm skeptical that San Diego could be as good as San Francisco, but it must say something about it doing well it can tie. Off-topic but this is a good read you probably have read:

California's Best And Worst Mid-Sized City Downtowns | California Planning & Development Report

wish there was a similar article for around here.
Yes Fresno's downtown is that bad. Especially considering how large the city is (400k+). Fresno is a special kind of awful. San Jose's is 10x better, possibly more.

And no, I don't think San Diego has as good of a downtown as San Francisco, but it is very nice. And in some respects nicer than Los Angeles'. It's been a few years since I have been down there, but from what I remember it is quite a bit more tourist-y / gentrified but has less "hustle-and-bustle" (I suppose that's the best way to put it).

Oh and that article is fairly old, Long Beach and Oakland have definitely lifted themselves out of contention for worst downtown. I'd have to give San Bernardino the nod for that one.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:09 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post

Oh and that article is fairly old, Long Beach and Oakland have definitely lifted themselves out of contention for worst downtown. I'd have to give San Bernardino the nod for that one.
The article gave Long Beach #3 in California, oddly above Los Angeles. Perhaps under the idea bigger isn't always better.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
The article gave Long Beach #3 in California, oddly above Los Angeles. Perhaps under the idea bigger isn't always better.
Oh for some reason I saw Long Beach along with Oakland and Bakersfield down at the bottom.

Long Beach has a really nice downtown actually, though I have spent next to no time down there. In many ways they are much more progressive with their pedestrian / cyclist policies than Los Angeles, and it shows as they have a cycle-track (though DTLA is getting one too) and many more pedestrian-friendly features that LA is lagging on. I believe they went ahead and named themselves the best bicycle city in the country, I'm not sure about that but it is a good city for bikes.

Riverside also has a pretty decent downtown.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:19 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Some day I'll go back to California... There's a chance I might make a trip out to Southern California this summer. Would rather go to Europe, but flights are $$ and probably so are general travel costs.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
The article gave Long Beach #3 in California, oddly above Los Angeles. Perhaps under the idea bigger isn't always better.
I think cohesion was rewarded over size. DTLA still is a little disjointed (something I don't mind--I'll call it "multi-nodal"!) and Long Beach is overall...pleasant. I found it odd the article says Santa Monica is overrated, but it lauds Long Beach's waterfront. Maybe it's because I'm really familiar with LB so it's like someone saying my little sister is sexy, but I don't find DTLB exciting. I really like it and the casual vibe but it's just OK.

And I feel the same way about San Diego, but because of the greater metro area I'd call San Diego the most urban feeling of this bunch. San Jose is...well, I used to live about seven blocks (walkable) to downtown San Jose, and it was easy to discover everything I needed to discover in about a month. That was several years ago and it might have changed, though "significantly" I doubt.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
I've actually been to all three of these cities... San Diego the most, San Jose a dozen times and San Antonio only once.

It has the second most interesting downtown out of the three. San Jose's, while nice and very underrated isn't as interesting of a place as Downtown San Antonio is. Neither can compete with San Diego, which is in a league of its own compared to these two.

As far as non-downtown neighborhoods - San Diego again sets itself apart by having fairly large neighborhoods of multi-family housing and a decent amount of walkable commercial strips. Like darkeconomist mentioned, San Jose's "urban" parts are extremely disjointed. San Jose may be the poster-child for dense sprawl (or the Inland Empire). San Antonio just looks very low density outside of its downtown, basically your typical Texas sprawl.

If downtown San Antonio didn't have the Riverwalk then I would agree with you, but the Riverwalk has a dense urban fabric and is made for walking, hence the name the Riverwalk. Downtown SD has more residential, but S.A's is more urban commericalized overall so to speak. S.A. is building on its residential component. Outside downtown's, I agree, SD is more urban, but S.A is not low density or mostly surburban outside of it's central core, medium density would be a better description. I hope San Antonio becomes as urban outside its downtown as San Diego. Hopefully the new central streetcar system spurs more residential in the core. As far as San Jose, I explored its core a bit with streetview and can say it is quite impressive, truly underrated.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:50 AM
 
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Santa Fe is more urban than all the others.

San Antonio has a very good downtown. the river walk, while a tourist attraction is gracious and wonderful to walk on and provides a pleasant unique way to experience a city here in the US. It also has some decent urban neighborhoods including the King William/southtown one of the very best urban neighborhoods in the US. San Antonio downtown is about as good as it gets in most parts of the SXSW.

But 90-95% of San Antonio is sprawl of the worst kind. Horrific mind boggling sprawl that deadens souls and destroys lives and stretches mile after mile after mile in every direction. San Antonio is a classic case of a beautiful city destroyed by the so-called greatest generation and left to fester by neglectful and self indulgent boomers whose legacy is the 410 expressway.

The pioneers and turn of the century generations by contrast built that lovely and graceful river walk and some of the most prized neighborhoods anywhere filled with the most gracious homes imaginable. Later generations left us with drive through fast food tacos, gated communities and McMansions.

Last edited by Komeht; 03-30-2013 at 08:11 AM..
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Santa Fe is more urban than all the others.

San Antonio has a very good downtown. the river walk, while a tourist attraction is gracious and wonderful to walk on and provides a pleasant unique way to experience a city here in the US. It also has some decent urban neighborhoods including the King William/southtown one of the very best urban neighborhoods in the US. San Antonio downtown is about as good as it gets in most parts of the SXSW.

But 90-95% of San Antonio is sprawl of the worst kind. Horrific mind boggling sprawl that deadens souls and destroys lives and stretches mile after mile after mile in every direction. San Antonio is a classic case of a beautiful city destroyed by the so-called greatest generation and left to fester by neglectful and self indulgent boomers whose legacy is the 410 expressway.

The pioneers and turn of the century generations by contrast built that lovely and graceful river walk and some of the most prized neighborhoods anywhere filled with the most gracious homes imaginable. Later generations left us with drive through fast food tacos, gated communities and McMansions.
Than San Diego? No.
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,078 posts, read 16,105,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
San Jose doesn't make the list:

California's Best And Worst Big City Downtowns | California Planning & Development Report

Is Fresno as bad as the article makes it out? I'm skeptical that San Diego could be as good as San Francisco, but it must say something about it doing well it can tie. Off-topic but this is a good read you probably have read:

California's Best And Worst Mid-Sized City Downtowns | California Planning & Development Report

wish there was a similar article for around here.
Yes to Fresno. Downtown Fresno is just depressing. It's so bad they just quit trying and went and built a new downtown over by the Amtrak Station.
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