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Old 04-19-2013, 10:07 PM
 
1,108 posts, read 1,896,263 times
Reputation: 650

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
But not to the same degree as Boston, NYC, Baltimore, and Philadelphia. Nowhere near.
Are you really saying that San Francisco is nowhere near as urban or dense as Boston, Philly, or Baltimore? I'd argue that it's more consistently urban and dense than any of those (and there are numbers to back that up), but no matter what your opinion is it's absurd to say it's "nowhere near". SF is consistently brought up as one of the 3 or 4 most urban cities in the country, and that should be clear to anyone who has spent time in the City.

In SF you can walk b asically across the vast majority of the City and be in super urban areas throughout. Check out this 7 mile walk from North Beach to Haight to the Mission - there's not one segment that isn't very dense and urban. And you can pretty much go in any direction, aside from a few isolated areas, and it's similar.

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=br...ra=ls&t=m&z=13
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
6,371 posts, read 5,994,477 times
Reputation: 3557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
The city of Baltimore itself is very dense but a lot of people live in the suburbs which spread very far out and a lot of people commute from long distances from places like Harford COunty and Carroll County. Most of the city is very ghetto with parts of town dominated by yuppies, mostly by the harbor. There are SOME spots in the city that have a small town vibe in a way like Hampden, especially the old native Hampden residents, not the hipsters who've moved in.

Also not many people take mass transit in Baltimore and most people in the area still drive. I see Baltimore as the entire region not just Baltimore City. There is way too crime for public transportation to be safe, and many of us prefer living in the suburbs.

Savannah, Georgia is not a very large city like Baltimore, but it is quite dense and has a lot of "hip" offerings for those of y'all who like that kind of thing. I also find New Orleans to be a very urban city in its central areas.
Good point about Savannah
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:17 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,143,293 times
Reputation: 7737
Quote:
Originally Posted by orzo View Post
Are you really saying that San Francisco is nowhere near as urban or dense as Boston, Philly, or Baltimore? I'd argue that it's more consistently urban and dense than any of those (and there are numbers to back that up), but no matter what your opinion is it's absurd to say it's "nowhere near". SF is consistently brought up as one of the 3 or 4 most urban cities in the country, and that should be clear to anyone who has spent time in the City.

In SF you can walk b asically across the vast majority of the City and be in super urban areas throughout. Check out this 7 mile walk from North Beach to Haight to the Mission - there's not one segment that isn't very dense and urban. And you can pretty much go in any direction, aside from a few isolated areas, and it's similar.

Broadway, San Francisco, CA 94133 to 24th St. Mission Station - Google Maps

Agree on SF but Seattle and Portland dont have anything of the contuity or scale to maintain urbanity. Dresidential denisty drops to 5-10K in the next set of nabes from DT. The drop off is significant relative to the others. Seattle feels similar in the very core but loses urban form much quickly than the others.
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Old 04-20-2013, 01:01 PM
 
1,108 posts, read 1,896,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Agree on SF but Seattle and Portland dont have anything of the contuity or scale to maintain urbanity. Dresidential denisty drops to 5-10K in the next set of nabes from DT. The drop off is significant relative to the others. Seattle feels similar in the very core but loses urban form much quickly than the others.
Overall, I agree Seattle and Portland don't quite hold up. But to your main point re: Seattle - I'd characterize the next set of neighborhoods as between 10K and 25K, but it really depends on how you define downtown. Just outside of the main part of the Downtown, there are Belltown and Pioneer Square, both of which are dense and urban. The next layer of neighborhoods are First Hill, Capitol Hill, and Lower Queen Anne/Uptown, which are some of the densest neighborhoods in the City. You've also got South Lake Union/Cascade and the International District lurking in there (and South Lake Union is densifying fast, with Amazon headquarters and tons of new development)

There are also some dense areas north of the ship canal, including U District, Ballard, Fremont, etc. The area directly South of Downtown is heavy industrial. This map shows it well (the two yellow areas in the central part are the financial district, where no one lives, and the Seattle Center, a park, arts, and event center).

It's also worth noting that Seattle is densifying fast, and is seeing an unprecedented boom in dense apartment buildings and condos throughout the City, but especially in the core and inner neighborhoods. It's adding more units to its core and inner neighborhoods than anywhere else in the country, I believe.

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Old 04-20-2013, 05:52 PM
 
443 posts, read 721,792 times
Reputation: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Agree on SF but Seattle and Portland dont have anything of the contuity or scale to maintain urbanity. Dresidential denisty drops to 5-10K in the next set of nabes from DT. The drop off is significant relative to the others. Seattle feels similar in the very core but loses urban form much quickly than the others.
I've heard you make this claim before, but it's just not accurate. Is Seattle as consistantly urban as SF, Philly, or Boston? No. But, compared to most American cities, there are urban areas much farther from the core. These are all streetviews from neighborhoods anywhere from 3 - 8 miles from the downtown core. Do they look suburban?

University District
seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps

Ballard

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps


Upper Queen Anne

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps


Columbia City (in Seattle proper)

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps

Roosevelt

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps


Wallingford

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps

Alaska Junction

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps

Fremont

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps

Madison Valley/Park

seattle - Google Maps

Central District

restaurants - Google Maps

Greenwood/Phinney

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:09 AM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,143,293 times
Reputation: 7737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relegate View Post
I've heard you make this claim before, but it's just not accurate. Is Seattle as consistantly urban as SF, Philly, or Boston? No. But, compared to most American cities, there are urban areas much farther from the core. These are all streetviews from neighborhoods anywhere from 3 - 8 miles from the downtown core. Do they look suburban?

University District
seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps

Ballard

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps


Upper Queen Anne

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps


Columbia City (in Seattle proper)

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps

Roosevelt

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps


Wallingford

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps

Alaska Junction

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps

Fremont

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps

Madison Valley/Park

seattle - Google Maps

Central District

restaurants - Google Maps

Greenwood/Phinney

seattle - Google Maps

seattle - Google Maps

Well SF, Boston, Philly were the ones I was comparing to and I stand behind this. The level of continuity is just not the same, is Seattle higher than say a Dallas or Houton or maybe even a Denver, yes. Is it to the level of SF or Philly, absolutely not, was my point

Do they look suburban, eh depends on the type of suburb, they look a lot like some street car suburbs on the east coast to be honest. Not the modern incarnation but they also dont look like most city nabes in a SF or Philly and again that was the comparator and point of reference
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:28 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,983 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
I looked at a smattering of those Seattle pictures. It looks a lot like Denver. I've posted Denver pictures in the past. I refer you all to this thread:

Official Index - Key Threads - PHOTO TOURS
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:20 PM
 
443 posts, read 721,792 times
Reputation: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Well SF, Boston, Philly were the ones I was comparing to and I stand behind this. The level of continuity is just not the same, is Seattle higher than say a Dallas or Houton or maybe even a Denver, yes. Is it to the level of SF or Philly, absolutely not, was my point

Do they look suburban, eh depends on the type of suburb, they look a lot like some street car suburbs on the east coast to be honest. Not the modern incarnation but they also dont look like most city nabes in a SF or Philly and again that was the comparator and point of reference

Keep in mind, though, I was posting outer neighborhoods - places that are at least 3 and up to 8 or 9 miles from the core. I didn't post anything from the denser inner neighborhoods, which look much more urban, like Capitol Hill (which has multiple sections), Lower Queen Anne, International District, South Lake Union, SODO, Cascade, etc.

I agree of course, that Seattle does not compare to SF or Philly in terms of urbanity, but the point was it doesn't just fall off into suburbia once you leave the core inner neighborhoods.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:37 PM
 
443 posts, read 721,792 times
Reputation: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I looked at a smattering of those Seattle pictures. It looks a lot like Denver. I've posted Denver pictures in the past. I refer you all to this thread:

Official Index - Key Threads - PHOTO TOURS

But, again - those streetviews were for Seattle's outer neighborhoods, many of them very far from the core. I've been to Denver, and I would argue that, maybe aside from Capitol Hill and Uptown, those streetviews are more reminiscent of Denver's inner neighborhoods. Once you start to get 4 or 5 miles from the core in Denver, it gets a lot more sprawly.

Also, I think people often don't recognize that Seattle's core and inner neighborhoods are notably bigger than places like Denver or Minneapolis. Look at these google map overviews with restaurants highlighted (density and distribution of restaurants is a pretty good measure of how where the "urban" part ends) and note the differences, at the same scale (also note, none of the neighborhoods I posted streetviews for above are visible in the the Seattle map):

Seattle: restaurants - Google Maps

Denver: restaurants - Google Maps

Minneapolis: restaurants - Google Maps

Last edited by Relegate; 04-21-2013 at 11:47 PM..
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:01 AM
 
443 posts, read 721,792 times
Reputation: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Well SF, Boston, Philly were the ones I was comparing to and I stand behind this. The level of continuity is just not the same, is Seattle higher than say a Dallas or Houton or maybe even a Denver, yes. Is it to the level of SF or Philly, absolutely not, was my point

Do they look suburban, eh depends on the type of suburb, they look a lot like some street car suburbs on the east coast to be honest. Not the modern incarnation but they also dont look like most city nabes in a SF or Philly and again that was the comparator and point of reference
Here are a few from the inner neighborhoods (but not the core), just as a point of reference. Sorry, they are all labeled "restaurants" from my previous search, but click on these to get a better sense of what Seattle's inner neighborhoods look like. This is where I think Seattle really excels over other cities in its tier, like Denver, Minneapolis or in all honesty, even Atlanta:

restaurants - Google Maps

restaurants - Google Maps


restaurants - Google Maps

restaurants - Google Maps

restaurants - Google Maps

restaurants - Google Maps

restaurants - Google Maps

restaurants - Google Maps

restaurants - Google Maps

Last edited by Relegate; 04-22-2013 at 01:02 AM..
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