Greater Philadelphia transit vs. Chicagoland transit: (Rail Only) (suburb, parks, system)

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by nei

But then you complained earlier that commuter rail doesn't have the frequency. Pluses and minuses both ways. The Manayunk line appears to have stops not much more spread than an express subway anyway. Excluding the Temple University stop, the Manayunk line gets half the ridership of the Central Square T stop.

Yes, the frequency is a problem for dense, urban areas where people are more likely to use transit for non-commuting trips. Philadelphia has quite a few of these areas. The long headways are not so bad for suburbia where people are less likely to make regular trips by transit.

I mean, it would be like serving 95% of Queens with LIRR instead of the subway.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Well I think HR would not be bad, better headways and connecting places along the corrider could be more a park and rode RR out further. But imaging another trunk line into Germantown and Chestnut Hill. Maybe even terminate in PM in the job centers there. You could also leverage the RR line currently to fit for HR

Yeah, I've always thought that converting one of those lines to rapid rail would be manageable. Philly is not in the position a lot of cities are in where they have to fight for ROWs, fight neighborhood associations, drill tunnels, etc. Most of the infrastructure is already there. And most people are already accustomed to some level of train service in their neighborhoods. I'm not sure what a total conversion would cost, but it has to be cheaper than places where they have to haul in the tunnel boring machines.

Originally Posted by kidphilly

A One seat ride from KOP to the NavyYard or the Linc would be nice too

Indeed.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by nei

There's little point in building an all-new rapid rail line when there are lots of electric commuter rails. The simpler solution would be to improve frequencies, maybe add a few stations and a few extensions of the already existing commuter rail. Septa rail is designed to be similar to a European S-Bahn / RER but it's too infrequent for that purpose. But the ridership isn't there, partly because the frequencies aren't there.

Maybe shorter more frequent trains are a possibility?

That sounds good in theory. But then how do you control costs? It's not like a subway where you may have just one guy driving the train. Regional Rail will have a guy driving the train and possibly two more guys walking around collecting tickets. Those are three salaries that have to be paid (and fairly generous pensions and benefits, I'm sure). So running the trains more frequently would probably come at great expense.

The flipside of that is trying to convert the lines to a normal subway system and pissing the unions off. That's always a good idea for politicians in Philadelphia.

[nei]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

The flipside of that is trying to convert the lines to a normal subway system and pissing the unions off. That's always a good idea for politicians in Philadelphia.

Seems like that was tried:

Improving the MBTA | Pedestrian Observations

[nei]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

Actually, the Park and Rides get fairly decent ridership. Forest Hills has a ridership that's roughly the equivalent of Kendall Square's.

http://www.mbta.com/uploadedfiles/do...ook%202010.pdf

Forest Hills has parking but it isn't primarily a park and ride. It has 206 parking spaces while its station ridership is around 14,000.

According to the thread posted below, the employment figures for the CBDs are not too different. So I don't think this really explains it.

Cities: Information on Central Business Districts (Employment Population, Transit Detail, Land Area, & Density)

Didn't expect that, though I'm wondering if the numbers skip Back Bay. And Cambridge is an additional employment center that might add to T ridership.

[rfp]

Maybe off topic, but I have to complain somewhere.

Chicago's CTA is in the process on privatising its rail and bus fare collection system. They are doing away with their CTA rail/bus pre-paid transit cards, and going to a private banking outfit (Data One) who will be issuing MasterCard debit cards (they will be called VENTRA cards). They can be used on transit lines, but also to purchase items in stores, etc.

They will be used by poorer folks who can't obtain credit cards. The extra-added fees are onerous: $2 for a phone call to the system, $4 to add money to the card on-line, a fee if the card is not used in one month. It has been estimated that the average cost of using the card as a debit card outside of transit (as most poorer people will) is $188 per year.

Everything is up for sale in Chicago (even MidWay airport). If this is the future of America, I'm glad I'm as old guy.

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Originally Posted by rfp

Maybe off topic, but I have to complain somewhere.

Chicago's CTA is in the process on privatising its rail and bus fare collection system. They are doing away with their CTA rail/bus pre-paid transit cards, and going to a private banking outfit (Data One) who will be issuing MasterCard debit cards (they will be called VENTRA cards). They can be used on transit lines, but also to purchase items in stores, etc.

They will be used by poorer folks who can't obtain credit cards. The extra-added fees are onerous: $2 for a phone call to the system, $4 to add money to the card on-line, a fee if the card is not used in one month. It has been estimated that the average cost of using the card as a debit card outside of transit (as most poorer people will) is $188 per year.

Everything is up for sale in Chicago (even MidWay airport). If this is the future of America, I'm glad I'm as old guy.

Hot off the presses: Two Ventra fees dropped from CTA card - Chicago Tribune

It still gives the $188 figure but did not recalculate for the absence of these fees.

I love the concept of this payment system but I agree that these fee schedules are textbook Big Banking.

[BajanYankee]

Will I be able to pay using my RushCard?

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

Will I be able to pay using my RushCard?

Only your BabyPhat visa.

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by nei

Forest Hills has parking but it isn't primarily a park and ride. It has 206 parking spaces while its station ridership is around 14,000.



Didn't expect that, though I'm wondering if the numbers skip Back Bay. And Cambridge is an additional employment center that might add to T ridership.

When it comes to light rail I will say that this is one aspect of transportation that Philadelphia does a significant better job than Chicago does.