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Old 04-08-2013, 09:48 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,568,112 times
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In any event, I think urban planners ought to take more notice of the public school systems of cities.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:49 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
In any event, I think urban planners ought to take more notice of the public school systems of cities.
In what way?
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
And what are suburban residents supposed to feel obligated to do? Other than funding inequalities [DC schools are funded similar to suburban ones, from what I read], is there any more they should do? Do they want their schools dragged down with the suburban schools?




Perhaps that is a success. The city is now a more attractive place to live, and the schools are now better. A way urban planners can create good schools?
Allowing lower income students to be bussed into those schools would be a start. The difference between being in an inner city school and well funded suburban school is like night a day. The whole time I was in one, I felt like I was in some correction facility. Meanwhile, the well funded schools feel like a place a parent would actually want to send their child too. I don't really know what you mean by "dragging" a school down. There's nothing inherently wrong with inner city school children. There's a lot of external factors working against them that causes them to do so poorly in the first place.

I don't view that as a success unless we're looking at it from some Randian, Atlus Shrugged perspective. The people getting displaced out into PG, MD still lose while the city can boast about improving it's schools when that's not what actually happened. From an economic standpoint, it's just as bad since you're supposed to his clustering of his highly skilled workers and laborers who make a lot and those get passed down in the form of higher wages for blue collar and service workers, but instead many of them get displaced. And I should have specificed earlier that lower middle income people aren't buying houses in DC. It's upper income professionals making six figures who are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Why not what? Why can't you give rich suburban districts authority over poor urban ones? Because you'll get riots in BOTH places.
I shouldn't have phrased it that way since I made it seem like I wanted those districts to have control over them. Why shouldn't there be more cooperation between districts like that? Lower income kids benefit.




Quote:
There are so many aspects of charter schools that aren't shown by standardized testing. Parental involvement, school community support, safety, personal attention ... and because they draw from all areas and income levels, and parental education attainment levels, it is not entirely accurate to base the entire assessment of charter schools on standardized testing. Just as few people would base their opinion of a regular school on standardized testing alone

Because the mantra is: if we run schools like a business then achievement will improve. That hasn't happened because charters are marginally less effective than publics. And those aspects of charters that you described can be found in middle class or high SES area because those groups tend to be more involved in their childs education than low SES. What do you think would happen if we transferred all the kids and families who attend from private catholic preparatory high school school in New England to an inner city school in Detroit and vice versa?
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:55 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
So because the coworkers wished to save money on housing, and perhaps chose to move to a transitional neighborhood and work to improve it, they should be forbidden from sending their kid to charter school? I think it's pretty wise actually. They aren't taking away any resources from the neighborhood school, either, while possibly contributing to the improvement of the neighborhood through other efforts. I'd rather save the excess mortgage money for college tuition.

As for the charter events, most of the ones I've done are after hours, including meetings. Because some may find these tasks onerous are not cause for the abandonment of charters, IMO. Just means they aren't a good fit for some.
How the h*ll do you know where these people live? University professors generally live in rather upscale, if old, neighborhoods. They don't usually live in dumps. I didn't say they did, nor did my daughter tell me they did. Yes, the charter schools do take away from neighborhood schools. In Colorado, the per-pupil funding the school district receives for the student follows the student to the charter. However, the neighborhood school's operating costs remain much the same. The teachers still need to be paid the same amount, etc. That is one of the big complaints about charters.

I have been a school volunteer. Most of the volunteer work of necessity has to be done when students are in school. There's a lot of resentment on the part of the stay-at-home parents towards the working parents who want to show up at a meeting, but not take the kids on field trips, or to the library, or help in the classroom.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:00 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,099,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
How the h*ll do you know where these people live? University professors generally live in rather upscale, if old, neighborhoods. They don't usually live in dumps. I didn't say they did, nor did my daughter tell me they did.
I see. So your criticism wasn't that they could afford a better school bit chose not to, it is that their Zoned school is fine and dandy and they still chose the charter. My mistake.

I'm disagree about where professors usually live - mine have lived in all types of places, with noting standing out.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:04 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
I see. So your criticism wasn't that they could afford a better school bit chose not to, it is that their Zoned school is fine and dandy and they still chose the charter. My mistake.

I'm disagree about where professors usually live - mine have lived in all types of places, with noting standing out.
Quit being snide.

I said I didn't know where in Denver they lived. My experience living in two college towns in addition to the college neighborhood in Pittsburgh where I went to college is that college professors tend to like big old houses, although I do know of a few exceptions.

My daughter said "It's funny how these professors all manage to get their kids into these desirable charter schools". (Not her exact words but that is the essence.) In other words, despite admission to these schools being based on lottery, a large number of people who are themselves educators and very savvy about education just "happen" to "win the lottery".

You don't know that they're living in some "transitional" neighborhood any more than I know where they live. You are making some real assumptions there. My best guess is they live in some of the more "gentrified" neighborhoods in Denver.

And back to the real point (at least what I think is supposed to be the point), as long as these folks can send their kids to these charter schools, and not have to darken the doors of the neighborhood schools, nothing will change in the neighborhood schools.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:08 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,099,778 times
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Well... It pays to be smart. And educators probably know something about education, which is a real endorsement of charter schools.

None of my college education was in standard "college town, USA," so that could explain the difference.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:11 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,996 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Well... It pays to be smart. And educators probably know something about education, which is a real endorsement of charter schools.

None of my college education was in standard "college town, USA," so that could explain the difference.
No, it's more a dis-endorsement of the DPS. The profs in Boulder, including the Nobel Prize winners, send their kids to the neighborhood schools. And as long as these UC-D profs send their kids to charters in large numbers, the neighborhood schools will not improve. There are not enough slots in charter schools for everyone's kids to go there.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:21 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,099,778 times
Reputation: 3117
I wasn't being snide, above.

Here, we Arrive at an impasse: without the children of smart parents going to poor schools, the schools will not improve. I think this is a fallacious argument. I think the positive effect of one smart kid In a roomful of problem children is so small that it does even come close to outweighing the negative effects of that kid not learning with kids who are actually on his level. He or she will learn less and not be challenged in a class where 90% of class time is behavior management.

As for gaming the system, in general: though a system can be manipulated for someone's benefit does not require to be eliminated, just fixed. Lots of people scam social security, but it's imprudent to just dissolve the entire program as a result.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,699 posts, read 8,488,284 times
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Funding should at least be equal. Funding through local school district propagates and reinforces inequality, and leads to the abandonment and disinvestment of huge geographical regions when they start to become economically depressed, insuring they'll fall lower. This is a huge and unnecessary squandering of economic potential. States should abolish local funding for schools and tax at the state level, and then fund every public school the exact same amount per capita.
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