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Old 04-09-2013, 10:23 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
But urban planners are supposed to be concerned with urban living! Frankly, I'm not quite sure what urban planners do in their work day, but that's probably a subject for a different thread. Posters on this forum, who are interested in all kinds of things urban, say they're not interested in the schools. Urban Planners write on a blog that they never had any interest in the schools in their city. I find that amazing, in a bad way.
No, they are not. Urban planning is not about every urban issue. As I said before:

Quote:
As urban planners in real life, urban planners aren't educators. From wikipedia urban planning is:

Urban planning (urban, city, and town planning) is a technical and political process concerned with the control of the use of land and design of the urban environment, including transportation networks, to guide and ensure the orderly development of settlements and communities.

Not really anything connected with education. It would make no sense for a city to hire an urban planner to fix its school system. They should be aware of the problems, but it's out of their job description.
Education is not in the field of an urban planner. Neither is crime even though crime is a major issue many cities face. That's the realm of criminal justice and law enforcement. An urban planner has little to contribute to crime, except for understanding layouts that might make a city less safe (urban superblocks that contain largerly poor people, so might argue) or perhaps worrying about street lighting. Other than noting "my city has so much crime that it makes a good TV series" there's little an urban planner can do.

As for transportation planning, transportation planning is a subfield of urban planning and deals with urban design. Education doesn't much.

As for posters on this thread, for myself, this forum is a hobby not a professional interest. I'm well aware city schools are a problem, but yes, I'm not as interested in city schools as some other things. I have made some posts on the subject, but as you can see, I don't post on the education forum.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:27 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
60 hours a week, my foot! What govt. employee routinely puts in 20 hrs/wk overtime, and yes, I have worked for the govt..
Me too. But you know most planners are not gov't employees, right? Sure governments have a staff of planners but as projects and budgets wax and wane, it's much easier for them to contract out. Most work for private planning and engineering firms, and most are working on more than one project at at time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You are getting sarcastic with that last full paragraph. I don't know the urban planning curriculum, but i don't think it's civil engineering, either. Cities and other govts do hire civil engineers, but they're hired to do civil engineering.
I could have said a planning degree I guess. Planners come from all backgrounds, including civil. Some civil engineers prefer the planning side and work happily there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I think planners should take an interest in the schools in their cities. It's not strawman. If nei didn't object when I (but not others) "dredge up old posts" I could actually go dredge up some that show that there is a minimal interest in education among the people on this board. Whenever I have brought up education in the past, the general response has been "We don't care"..
So far you're the only one who thinks education is, or should be, a major part of urban planning. So why would it be brought up if the rest of us, and the industry as a whole, don't think this way? You can say you wish planners did - which I think is a really interesting point perhaps deserving its own theread - but you can't chastise the rest of us. Again, it's like being mad at the librarian for not caring about the score of the baseball game. There is overlap you wish was there, that simply isn't at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
This board wants to talk about transit, car sharing, walkability, .
Unlike education these are all common projects for planners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Heck, the thread titles show that, too. There is very little interest in education on this board, and when it does come up, many posters show they still believe some of these old songs and dances about city schools having less money per pupil than suburban schools, which is totally untrue in most cases.
There's an entire education forum that would be the better home for a discussion about urban schools. Though if you wish to start a post about the nexus of urban planning and education, I'd be intersted to read it. It's a good topic.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
Funding should at least be equal. Funding through local school district propagates and reinforces inequality, and leads to the abandonment and disinvestment of huge geographical regions when they start to become economically depressed, insuring they'll fall lower. This is a huge and unnecessary squandering of economic potential. States should abolish local funding for schools and tax at the state level, and then fund every public school the exact same amount per capita.
Agreed though with some caveats. In education we say that equality doesn't mean providing students with the same opportunities. Equity in education means making sure that each students learning are tailored to their need. The needs of a student from a low income background are going to be different than one on an IEP or a high income student. A good example of this would be where districts decide to end free or reduced breakfast and lunch. That type of decision is going to affect low income students a lot more than high income.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:37 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Me too. But you know most planners are not gov't employees, right? Sure governments have a staff of planners but as projects and budgets wax and wane, it's much easier for them to contract out. Most work for private planning and engineering firms, and most are working on more than one project at at time.



I could have said a planning degree I guess. Planners come from all backgrounds, including civil. Some civil engineers prefer the planning side and work happily there.



So far you're the only one who thinks education is, or should be, a major part of urban planning. So why would it be brought up if the rest of us, and the industry as a whole, don't think this way? You can say you wish planners did - which I think is a really interesting point perhaps deserving its own theread - but you can't chastise the rest of us. Again, it's like being mad at the librarian for not caring about the score of the baseball game. There is overlap you wish was there, that simply isn't at this point.



Unlike education these are all common projects for planners



There's an entire education forum that would be the better home for a discussion about urban schools. Though if you wish to start a post about the nexus of urban planning and education, I'd be intersted to read it. It's a good topic.
I am not the only one on this forum who has expressed concern about education, although there are only a few of us. There are few people on this forum who are parents, for one thing. Interestingly, one parent on this forum said her family deliberately chose a residence in the SF burbs because of the schools. IIRC, it was something like it being too "iffy" to get into a charter/magnet school in SF, so they went with the burbs, which have more uniformly decent schools (apparently). (I have no experience with SF schools other than a niece and nephew who went to school in Concord.)

I have said several times in these interminable threads about "why city living is preferable to the suburbs" that if the cities are serious about getting people to live there and STAY there, they have to shape up their schools. People at that juncture usually jump on with all the urban legends, e.g. more funding in the burbs, yada, yada, that aren't true, and sometimes with the fantasy that these schools will just improve themselves when the gentrifiers kids start attending them. They also jump in saying they (other posters) don't care about schools that much; it doesn't interest them; they don't have kids and aren't planning to have any in the near future if at all (you know what they say about the best laid plans); they're interested in urban "form" and other issues, not education.

The ed forum does not discuss urban v suburban schools much; I can't remember a thread about it. People on that forum are concerned about issues relating to education, not whether the schools are in the city or the suburbs. Here are the topics that have been discussed today/yesterday on the ed forum:

Kid kicked out of school because of his hair cut.
Self Learning for Adults
Wind of change...
(About the teaching profession)
High School Is Worthless
School Comparison- State by State?
News, Georgia high school students organize first integrated prom
(Which you posted in, nei, despite the fact you say you don't post on the ed forum)
Math and Science scores in America?
Are American-educated losing the ability to speak properly?


According to this Urban Planning Curriculum, this is not an engineering field.
The Curriculum | Urban and Regional Planning | The University of Iowa

As you can see, someone else has started a thread such as you suggested.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:43 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,989,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
News, Georgia high school students organize first integrated prom[/b] (Which you posted in, nei, despite the fact you say you don't post on the ed forum)
I posted on it because you mentioned it yesterday. And my response wasn't that serious.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:49 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I posted on it because you mentioned it yesterday. And my response wasn't that serious.
It wasn't me. I've never looked at that thread. I never mentioned proms in Georgia; I was talking about lunch counters in Maryland.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:56 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,989,613 times
Reputation: 14810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
It wasn't me. I've never looked at that thread. I never mentioned proms in Georgia; I was talking about lunch counters in Maryland.
You mentioned the education forum. That the thread was in the education forum.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:05 PM
 
4 posts, read 12,140 times
Reputation: 16
IT AINT THE INFRAstructure that has the big cities in the crapper. It's the scum population. By allowing these vermin to exist by constant subsidies of $$$$$$$$ from our idiots in D.C.the cities become cesspools of humanity. Unwed single mothers with multiple babies from multiple fathers living on the edge creates a vast wasteland of unwanted and unproductive people, that discourage any decent human from wanting to be anywhere near them. We must force if we can't convince these people that they must work and not keep having babies or they can starve.....We have created a monster and don't have the guts to kill it./ If this continues, the big cities will continue to decline and the garbage will run the decent folks away...
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:31 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,804 posts, read 10,715,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I am not the only one on this forum who has expressed concern about education, although there are only a few of us. There are few people on this forum who are parents, for one thing.
not every parent on this forum wants to discuss education, and at least one parent on this forum understands the distinction between urban planning and all urban issues.

Have a nice day.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:32 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,804 posts, read 10,715,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The ed forum does not discuss urban v suburban schools much; I can't remember a thread about it. People on that forum are concerned about issues relating to education, not whether the schools are in the city or the suburbs.
that may be, but nonetheless question of urban vs suburban education more properly belong there than here. This is not supposed to be the urban vs suburban forum.
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