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Old 04-09-2013, 02:50 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
As for posters on this thread, for myself, this forum is a hobby not a professional interest. I'm well aware city schools are a problem, but yes, I'm not as interested in city schools as some other things. I have made some posts on the subject, but as you can see, I don't post on the education forum.
I understand everyone having their own interests in urban planning. However, as a moderator, IMO, you do sort of lead this forum and when the mod says, "I'm not interested in this issue", it makes more of a statement than me, for example, saying the same thing. I couldn't give a care about these Sim City threads, but I never went on one to say that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
that may be, but nonetheless question of urban vs suburban education more properly belong there than here. This is not supposed to be the urban vs suburban forum.
It's not? Coulda fooled me! Perhaps our mod could delete all those threads about the "horrors" of the suburbs, etc. Right now, on the front page of this forum, we have:

Poll: What kind of lifestyle do you think tends to be the most lonely? (Rural, urban, suburban)
Suburbs and small towns. I'm not a big fan. Sticks and urban life, I love 'em!

Plus numerous threads that discuss the suburbs, "urbanity" threads, etc.

The education forum is for the discussion of education issues, not the location of the schools. There is no question, that in general, suburban schools perform better than urban schools. It is what it is. This discussion is about "fixing" American cities, which one would think includes the schools.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:39 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,803 posts, read 10,712,708 times
Reputation: 2522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
It's not? Coulda fooled me! Perhaps our mod could delete all those threads about the "horrors" of the suburbs, etc. Right now, on the front page of this forum, we have:

Poll: What kind of lifestyle do you think tends to be the most lonely? (Rural, urban, suburban)
Suburbs and small towns. I'm not a big fan. Sticks and urban life, I love 'em!

Plus numerous threads that discuss the suburbs, "urbanity" threads, etc.

The education forum is for the discussion of education issues, not the location of the schools. There is no question, that in general, suburban schools perform better than urban schools. It is what it is. This discussion is about "fixing" American cities, which one would think includes the schools.
i do not know whts in the threads you highlighted, as I generally avoid such threads. If they relate to the impact of layout and density on lifestyle they might be on topic. Nonetheless I have proposed that CD establish a lifestyle vs lifestyle forum, to which such discussions could be moved.

I would suggest a thread on layout and density on education might be on topic - say the disadvantage urban areas have in fitting in playing fields on school grounds, or the advantage they have in getting specialized schools with economies of scale without massive commutes - would be on topic. The specific problems that urban school systems have due to socioeconomic factors, no.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:47 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
Reputation: 14805
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
i do not know whts in the threads you highlighted, as I generally avoid such threads. If they relate to the impact of layout and density on lifestyle they might be on topic. Nonetheless I have proposed that CD establish a lifestyle vs lifestyle forum, to which such discussions could be moved.
The loneliness thread I thought fit because it dealt with how layout / type of community affected social interaction. The suburbs and small towns thread was mostly from 2009. As for most of the lifestyle threads, I don't like them much and are a net negative forum, but I don't close thread unless necessary. Stuff like this doesn't belong here:

13 Reasons You Should Bike to Work
The Real Cost of Owning a car per household? $8,000+ per annum

all about personal choices rather than cities themselves

Or this "winner" of a thread

Are suburbanites the new rednecks?
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:43 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
i do not know whts in the threads you highlighted, as I generally avoid such threads. If they relate to the impact of layout and density on lifestyle they might be on topic. Nonetheless I have proposed that CD establish a lifestyle vs lifestyle forum, to which such discussions could be moved.

I would suggest a thread on layout and density on education might be on topic - say the disadvantage urban areas have in fitting in playing fields on school grounds, or the advantage they have in getting specialized schools with economies of scale without massive commutes - would be on topic. The specific problems that urban school systems have due to socioeconomic factors, no.
You missed the point, entirely. The topic is not the problems of urban schools. We all know what they are. The topic is, urban planners should concern themselves with the state of city schools if they want people to stay in "the city" after their kids reach school age.
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:56 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
Reputation: 14805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You missed the point, entirely. The topic is not the problems of urban schools. We all know what they are. The topic is, urban planners should concern themselves with the state of city schools if they want people to stay in "the city" after their kids reach school age.
And my point, as I repeated several times, is urban planners are not educators education is a different field althougher. In real life, urban planners do not belong dealing with a city's school system anymore than they belong dealing with a city's police.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:02 PM
 
2,881 posts, read 4,617,025 times
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What I've noticed is threads mentioning city school systems tend to get reduced to city vs suburbs anyway, with a bottom line stance that it's the suburbs that led to the ruin of city schools. In terms of budgeting that's not the case. But that reductive assertion becomes a blocker to any new discovery about urban planning in terms of improving schools.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:06 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,830,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
Funding should at least be equal. Funding through local school district propagates and reinforces inequality, and leads to the abandonment and disinvestment of huge geographical regions when they start to become economically depressed, insuring they'll fall lower. This is a huge and unnecessary squandering of economic potential. States should abolish local funding for schools and tax at the state level, and then fund every public school the exact same amount per capita.
We've reached the endgame of that in NJ. The state income tax funds the schools in a few low income districts, to levels higher than those of the wealthy suburban districts, which are funded almost entirely by property taxes. Guess where the schools are good, and where the schools are by and large a disaster?

If you guessed "The low income districts still stink", you'd be right. It's not money. All the funding has done is drive up property tax rates (because the income tax, which is supposed to be used to reduce property tax rates by funding schools, is only used for funding schools in the low-income districts); the money has gone down a rathole.
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Kalamalka Lake, B.C.
3,044 posts, read 4,015,477 times
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Default Actually, the ACIR hearings from the sixties

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Sounds like the "urban renewal" rhetoric of the 1950s.
Correct. The "Model Cities" programs starting in the fifties. (Ottawa, Ontario, Canada copied this idea in the fifties and these apts. are STILL the cornerstone of crack sales, gun fights, etc.

And the American Committee on Intergovernmental Relations Hearings, approx. late sixties.
Approx. twenty volumes with type size of the Bible.

However, getting layers of government to work to a common goal is usually blind-sided by the real estate interests and their community minded lawyers. Didn't happen in a lot of US towns.
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:33 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
And my point, as I repeated several times, is urban planners are not educators — education is a different field althougher. In real life, urban planners do not belong dealing with a city's school system anymore than they belong dealing with a city's police.
No, urban planners are not educators. Nor are they architects or engineers, but they get involved in that stuff. In fact, that's their bread and butter, so it seems. If building codes were just left up to the engineers, buildings would probably be a lot safer. If street design were left up to the engineers, all cities would probably be on grids with wide streets. But those are topics for another thread(s). Schools have all sorts of "community liaison" committees. Why shouldn't the city planners be a part of them? People sure do shriek when the school district proposes closing schools. "We'll lose our community center". They said it when my little ele school was closed back in the 70s (I think, maybe late 60s), and they're saying it now in Chicago. Schools are often polling places for elections. So schools are an integral part of the "urban fabric".

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 04-09-2013 at 07:47 PM..
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,896 posts, read 7,657,858 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
No, urban planners are not educators. Nor are they architects or engineers, but they get involved in that stuff. In fact, that's their bread and butter, so it seems. If building codes were just left up to the engineers, buildings would probably be a lot safer. If street design were left up to the engineers, all cities would probably be on grids with wide streets. But those are topics for another thread(s). Schools have all sorts of "community liaison" committees. Why shouldn't the city planners be a part of them? People sure do shriek when the school district proposes closing schools. "We'll lose our community center". They said it when my little ele school was closed back in the 70s (I think, maybe late 60s), and they're saying it now in Chicago. Schools are often polling places for elections. So schools are an integral part of the "urban fabric".
The professions of urban planning, architecture, and engineering are closely related. There is a lot of overlap. I've done the work of an engeneer, and--to a lesser extent--an urban planner, myself.

Re: the second bolded statement. Schools absolutely are a part of the urban fabric. I wouldn't be surprised if urban planners could play a role in the placement of schools. But an urban planner's job wouldn't go beyond placement, and maybe outside appearance/form.
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