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Old 04-13-2013, 02:21 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,554,590 times
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Nice pictures, nei, but I thought it was obvious the previous poster was talking about vegetable gardening, since he asked me if I had ever heard of urban farming. There are many flowers that will grow in part shade.

Plants and Flowers that Grow Well in Partial or Light Shade - Garden Helper, Gardening Questions and Answers

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 04-13-2013 at 03:11 PM..
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:33 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,985 posts, read 41,937,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Nice pictures, nei, but I thought it was obvious the previous poster was talking about vegetable gardening, since he asked me if I had ever heard of urban farming.
Oh, I thought he was talking about gardens in front yards in general and vegetable gardening was just given as an example. Perhaps he could clarify.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
2,610 posts, read 3,760,401 times
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Some people in Toronto go rather over the top with front yard gardens. :P

Cabbagetown, Toronto, ON, Canada - Google Maps

These 3 pairs of semi detached homes (and a 4th pair across the street) are pretty good too.
Cabbagetown, Toronto, ON, Canada - Google Maps

Cabbagetown is one of the neighbourhoods that's most consistently attractive when it comes to front yards.
Cabbagetown, Toronto, ON, Canada - Google Maps

Found this neat idea while looking for suburban examples.
Woodbridge, Vaughan, ON, Canada - Google Maps

Others:
Woodbridge, Vaughan, ON, Canada - Google Maps
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:56 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,554,590 times
Reputation: 33051
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Oh, I thought he was talking about gardens in front yards in general and vegetable gardening was just given as an example. Perhaps he could clarify.
If you had looked at my Denver pictures, you would see that there are many landscaped front yards. I guess "garden" out here means a vegetable garden, as in western PA, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by memph View Post
Some people in Toronto go rather over the top with front yard gardens. :P

Cabbagetown, Toronto, ON, Canada - Google Maps

These 3 pairs of semi detached homes (and a 4th pair across the street) are pretty good too.
Cabbagetown, Toronto, ON, Canada - Google Maps

Cabbagetown is one of the neighbourhoods that's most consistently attractive when it comes to front yards.
Cabbagetown, Toronto, ON, Canada - Google Maps

Found this neat idea while looking for suburban examples.
Woodbridge, Vaughan, ON, Canada - Google Maps

Others:
Woodbridge, Vaughan, ON, Canada - Google Maps
Cool pictures! I note trees incorporated into these flower gardens.
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Fort Collins, USA
1,473 posts, read 2,368,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Yes, I said "most gardens" are in the back. Is this not true?

(Trying to think of how to sayhttp://www.hulu.com/watch/19313 this right, OK?)

Of all the pictures people have posted of their neighborhoods, neighborhoods and street views in their city, etc, I have never seen one picture of a front yard garden. Now since the poster who is arguing lives in Denver, I will post some links with pictures of his fair city.

One of the "hippest" areas of Denver:
best areas to live in Denver
Just look at all the front yard gardens! I count, er, zero!

Condos around Cheesman Park
Another desirable area with the same number of front yard gardens.

Cherry Creek North: Shopping & Neighborhood -- PHOTO TOUR
Yet another. Do note the horror of a few unraked leaves in some of these pictures. Also note how the leaf-less trees are shading the buildings. Note also snow on the ground.

Downtown Denver --about 50 pics -- 4.13.2008
The hippest place in Denver to live.

Englewood / Arapahoe Acres / Mid-Century Modern -- Photo Tour
Gasp! Suburb! Hard to tell if there are any front yard gardens since there is snow on the lawns. Note how the trees are shading the homes, not.

Mediterranean / Tuscan Style Homes -- PHOTO TOUR
More suburbs with the same number of front gardens.

Xeriscaping in Denver: Smoky Hill PHOTO TOUR
Pretty suburban. Note trees in full leaf (gasp!).

Berkeley, Lakeside and Regis Neighborhoods -- PHOTO TOUR

Regis University and Hilltop area -- PHOTO TOUR
West Highlands Neighborhood -- PHOTO TOUR
Hilltop Neighborhood, Historic Denver Modern/Mid-Century Homes -- PHOTO TOUR
OMG! Look at this horrid shaded patio in the very first picture!
South & SE Denver -- PHOTO TOUR
Platt Park area (Old South Pearl) -- Photo Tour
My fave. Look at these despicable street trees.

Note how these street trees interfere with the growing of grass, bushes, flowers, etc, in all these pictures.

Plus much more in this thread:

Official Index - Key Threads - PHOTO TOURS

This is really a ridiculous argument against trees. If you have a front yard and a back yard, and there's a tree in front shading your lawn, you can put the garden in back. The benefits of the tree for decreased cooling in summer probably outweigh the issue of having to site the garden in back. The produce would be a little safer in back, as well.
But with street trees on city-owned land, you lose control over the sun vs. shade in your front yard. If your house faces south, is in a climate with moderate summers, and you want to grow heat loving vegetables, the front yard provides the best microclimate (similarly south-facing microclimates are the best places for the most xeric plants if you live in a dry climate).

I know you don't want to look at the totality of trees on a lot versus street trees but in well established neighborhoods, it matters because your neighbors will make choices based on their orientation, not yours. In such neighborhoods, it's not inconceivable that the only good place for a garden with full-sun requiring plants is near the street because other neighbors' trees are cutting off most of the rest of the sun. I've been through this - living in an old, overly-shaded neighborhood and trying to create a thriving xeriscape in the front yard. It helped when one of those pesky May snowstorms caused so much damage to one of the street trees that the city has to cut it down (as I said before those May and September snowstorms are another reason to question the overuse of deciduous trees in high-elevation western regions).

Regarding solar, IMO passive solar is the best kind. I had a rooftop system on my old house - it was expensive to maintain and only provided hot water heating. Now I have a south-facing house full of windows and it provides natural heating in the winter with no maintenance costs. There is no way I would ever put anything in the front yard that would adversely affect my solar access and because there is no city tree lawn I don't have to worry about the city doing it either. That said, I will concede that evergreens would be a far greater problem and that street trees usually are not evergreen.

In any case, I prefer a more nuanced approach about street trees (and other city trees) then the almost "religious" fervor for trees that is so common.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:21 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,554,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xeric View Post
But with street trees on city-owned land, you lose control over the sun vs. shade in your front yard. If your house faces south, is in a climate with moderate summers, and you want to grow heat loving vegetables, the front yard provides the best microclimate (similarly south-facing microclimates are the best places for the most xeric plants if you live in a dry climate).

I know you don't want to look at the totality of trees on a lot versus street trees but in well established neighborhoods, it matters because your neighbors will make choices based on their orientation, not yours. In such neighborhoods, it's not inconceivable that the only good place for a garden with full-sun requiring plants is near the street because other neighbors' trees are cutting off most of the rest of the sun. I've been through this - living in an old, overly-shaded neighborhood and trying to create a thriving xeriscape in the front yard. It helped when one of those pesky May snowstorms caused so much damage to one of the street trees that the city has to cut it down (as I said before those May and September snowstorms are another reason to question the overuse of deciduous trees in high-elevation western regions).

Regarding solar, IMO passive solar is the best kind. I had a rooftop system on my old house - it was expensive to maintain and only provided hot water heating. Now I have a south-facing house full of windows and it provides natural heating in the winter with no maintenance costs. There is no way I would ever put anything in the front yard that would adversely affect my solar access and because there is no city tree lawn I don't have to worry about the city doing it either. That said, I will concede that evergreens would be a far greater problem and that street trees usually are not evergreen.

In any case, I prefer a more nuanced approach about street trees (and other city trees) then the almost "religious" fervor for trees that is so common.
1. Who said I didn't? That doesn't happen to be the thread topic.

2. And just where do you see this? Is this common in Ft. Collins? I have never seen front yard gardens, meaning vegetable gardens, in Denver or Boulder. There was a big stink in the Daily Camera a few years ago b/c someone was growing tomatoes in the city-owned strip of land between the sidewalk and the street, but I've never seen anyone have a front yard garden.

You seem to be advocating for no trees. Yours seems to be a minority opinion.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:30 PM
 
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I don't think the city, assuming we're talking about the city planting trees on the street, need be concerned about potentially shading someone's front yard/stoop vegetable garden.

And all the arguments about whether or not "most" gardens are in front or in back, or where people plant their vegetables, all seem pretty pointless -- clearly that is going to depend on where you live. You plant your vegetables where the conditions are right and where you have the space for it. I've lived in a variety of places, and have seen vegetables grown in front yards, in back yards, in side yards, in pots on steps, and on windowsills. You work with what you have.

ETA: I'm surprised that some of you haven't seen front yard vegetable gardens before. I won't say they're common, but I've seen them in a wide variety of neighborhoods both here in Minnesota as well as on the west coast (didn't pay as much attention to them when living in the mid-Atlantic, as I wasn't as into gardens then). If your sunniest spot is in front, then it makes sense to plant your sun-craving vegetables out there (assuming you have the space). I do know that some places have regulations against growing vegetables in front yards, but I don't know how common those types of restrictions are.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:35 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,988 posts, read 102,554,590 times
Reputation: 33051
^^I agree about the gardens, and said similar, to wit:
Quote:
If you have a front yard and a back yard, and there's a tree in front shading your lawn, you can put the garden in back.
I still don't think I've ever seen a true "front yard" vegetable garden in person. I have seen pictures.
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Fort Collins, USA
1,473 posts, read 2,368,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
1. Who said I didn't? That doesn't happen to be the thread topic.

2. And just where do you see this? Is this common in Ft. Collins? I have never seen front yard gardens, meaning vegetable gardens, in Denver or Boulder. There was a big stink in the Daily Camera a few years ago b/c someone was growing tomatoes in the city-owned strip of land between the sidewalk and the street, but I've never seen anyone have a front yard garden.

You seem to be advocating for no trees. Yours seems to be a minority opinion.
"Nuanced approach" does not mean "no trees". But I will admit that my "trees are not always good" view is often seen as radical (for some odd reason). In fact I'm actually surprised at the number of posters here that have expressed a similar view.

Although I have seen some front yard vegetable gardens here, that's really not the point. Rather, it's about the ability of a homeowner to have some control over the conditions in his or her front yard. My preference is no city planting strips on residential streets (not all of the old ideas were good ones) although I think they serve a purpose on busy streets (mostly to create a safer and more pleasant environment for pedestrians).

Last edited by xeric; 04-14-2013 at 04:29 PM..
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:43 PM
 
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The problem is if they are all the same species. Presently there is an issue with ashes with many cities and suburbs spending millions to remove and replace them. Happened decades ago with elms.
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