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Old 04-10-2013, 11:24 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,102,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Most nothing little about inner city culture to understand where it comes from nor care.
Or think they know ... but really don't have a clue.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,419 posts, read 11,923,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Frankly, I don't get this adoption topic at all. What does adoption have to do with urban planning?
I probably shouldn't have gotten into it. The only reason I mentioned it is because without doing so someone was undoubtedly going to mention how "parental involvement" is key to children doing well in school, with the implicit condemnation of black parents. There is a fair amount of information that this is not true, at least regarding racial gaps in test scores. I know I have read about classes given to black parents to get them more involved in their children's education which found, despite greater effort by the parents, no positive effect upon the children.

More damning is the studies of black adoptees by white families. Generally speaking, a black child adopted by a white family does as well as the average white student when they are elementary school age. But by high school, statistically speaking their results are indistinguishable from black kids raised in black families. There's a couple ways to interpret this. The cultural way (which I would prefer to believe, in absence of further evidence), is that black kids adopted by white families start out race blind - they don't know they are supposed to not be good at school because they are black. But when they get to be teenagers, national stereotypes become unavoidable, and they lower their performance to meet expectations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
From what I've noticed, it does seem there's less of a cultural value on education for many black for various reasons. And while appearing studious or nerdy is stigmatized in all social groups, I think it's stigmatized more amongst black kids almost as "acting white".
I absolutely think this might play a role. It's one reason why it may be that second-generation black immigrants (Haitians, Jamaicans, Africans, etc) typically perform well at school. They don't see themselves as African-American, they see themselves as ____-American, and as a result, the stigma that is heaped on native blacks for being a nerd isn't really resonant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
But not all urban minorities are black. In many cities, there are more hispanics than black children in the public schools. The asian population in cities is increasingly high, too.
True. There are clear divisions based upon race/ethic group here as well. Hispanics as a whole score better than blacks, but not as well as whites. For Asians it's more complicated since there are so many different national groups, and English proficiency varies. Asians in the Northeastern U.S. tend to be very high scoring on standardized tests, whereas those in California only score marginally better than the average across the entire U.S. Certainly there are more Asian groups in California which nationally trend more lower-middle class (Vietnamese, Filipino, Hmong, etc), but AFAIK, no study has broken out and seen if they are forming underclass populations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weteath View Post
I have a younger brother and a younger sister, anyways we live in a suburban school district, my mom didn't like the test scores of the public school dropping so she and my father sent my brother to an academy... So basically he gets all A's and is one of the top students,(predominantly white school), he will be in 10th grade next year and already be in two college campus classes for early college credits. Now onto my sister, my parents are always on her but she just has no focus at all, she worries about friends and boys and the kardashians too much. Needless to say she isn't the student my brother is.
This relates to what Nei was talking about. There's a fair amount of evidence that your peer group at school heavily effects your performance. Black students at overwhelmingly white schools generally end up "culturally white," and have much higher performance than the average black student. However, once the black population at a certain school gets above a threshold, this vanishes. Basically by the time kids are in high school, they are race conscious. In a school with a large number of black and white kids, there is often the expectation put on you by others of your race that you'll only be friends with those on "your side." A few bad apples with anti-school attitudes can thus have major influence in ensuring that other black students don't "act white." As a result, often 30% black schools can have black test score results no better than 99% black schools.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:04 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Or think they know ... but really don't have a clue.
If you're referring to me, I've worked in the inner city.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:05 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,102,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
If you're referring to me, I've worked in the inner city.
I definitely wasn't referring to you, but since you brought it up: In which inner city did you work?
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:09 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
I definitely wasn't referring to you, but since you brought it up: In which inner city did you work?
Pittsburgh. Believe it or not, Champaign, IL also has an inner city, and I worked there as well. I also worked in some very low income suburbs of Denver.
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Old 04-10-2013, 03:30 PM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,635,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
It's not the amount of money so much as what they're spending it on. Many urban school districts may be "cash-rich" on paper, but in fact, they're resource-poor in everyday practice.
Agreed. There Program for International Student Assessment(PISA) has some data floating around on their website about how different countries choose to spend money in education and it's consistent with what you said: amount of money spent per student is not as important as where that money is being spent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post


Those in good schools would be strongly opposed to bussing inner city children into their schools for the above reason.
Yeah and those living out of the way of the light rail line in Virginia Beach also oppose it being built. That doesn't mean it does not make for good policy. It's called desegregation busing and it's effective in helping students would be hindered by their environment to achieve more than they would had they remained in their current school.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:34 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post


Those in good schools would be strongly opposed to bussing inner city children into their schools for the above reason.
He's right. This has all been tried before, too. It's not like this is some new idea. Denver was under court-ordered busing for desegrgation purposes for 20 years.

Here is the relevant snip of a post of mine from previously about this issue.

Denver schools were under court-ordered desegregation for about 20 years. I searched for a local article to post about this, and all I could find was this one that you have to listen to, if you so choose. It's not too long. Some of the people involved in the original suit still feel that the schools should have retained busing for integration purposes. Denver has a large enough black population to be considered, and a very large Hispanic population.
Colorado Public Radio - 40 Years Later: Remembering Desegregation in Denver Schools


Bascially, the hispanic and black communities wanted to end busing for integration. Currently, the DPS schools are majority Hispanic.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 04-10-2013 at 07:47 PM..
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:26 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
It's not the amount of money so much as what they're spending it on. Many urban school districts may be "cash-rich" on paper, but in fact, they're resource-poor in everyday practice.
What do you mean by that?
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:29 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,959,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
He's right. This has all been tried before, too. It's not like this is some new idea. Denver was under court-ordered busing for desegrgation purposes for 20 years.
Yes, I know it's been down. Did you mean I'm right or someone else?
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:32 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Yes, I know it's been down. Did you mean I'm right or someone else?
I'm not an advocate of mandatory busing. Who's to know if that's "right".
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