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Old 04-13-2013, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,882,400 times
Reputation: 7732

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
I applaud when people kill themselves rather than innocents, however. The only way to lose control over a speed bump is to be going way too fast. I've never seen one on a road with a speed limit over 35... so this guy was probably doing 45-50+ at night on a residential street while not paying attention to see that there was in fact a large painted bump reflecting light at him. Harsh. But that's a speed bump doing its job.
Well that pretty much says it all. You think that speeding = capital offense. At least you admit that you are not trying to make the roads safer. You are just trying to kill people, who's driving habits you don't like.

What happens if while you are killing a speeder with one of your speed bumps, he loses control and crashes through the wall of a house and kills a couple of innocent people inside.

This thread is starting to help me understand what type of people support this traffic calming lunacy.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,068 posts, read 16,085,690 times
Reputation: 12641
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Well that pretty much says it all. You think that speeding = capital offense. At least you admit that you are not trying to make the roads safer. You are just trying to kill people, who's driving habits you don't like.

What happens if while you are killing a speeder with one of your speed bumps, he loses control and crashes through the wall of a house and kills a couple of innocent people inside.

This thread is starting to help me understand what type of people support this traffic calming lunacy.
There's inherently always risks in everything. The question is the speed bumping killing more innocent people in houses or preventing innocent people in cars or pedestrians or cyclists out safely using the streets? That's all that matters to me. To put it bluntly, I don't particularly care much if a reckless driver offs himself. It's an unfortunate event, no doubt, but ultimately it's not much of a tragedy. I care about the safety of the roads for people who use them responsibly. I don't much care how safe roads are for reckless drivers. If you can improve safety for responsible drivers while increasing the risk to reckless drivers, I think that's a great thing. The increase risk for driving recklessly might cause some would-be reckless drivers to reevaluate their priorities. I think that's unlikely, in practice however. I ride motorcycles, which are incredibly dangerous compared to cars, and there's plenty of reckless motorcycle riders as well despite the risks and the fact that most motorcyclists who die killed themselves rather than being killed by an oblivious cager.

Traffic calming has a pretty solid track record of reducing accidents and accident severity overall. There are certainly a poorly done traffic calming projects that actually increase the risks. In particular, traffic circles SUCK for bicycles. They're just really, really dangerous. They work extremely well for automobiles, however, and aren't much different for pedestrians. That's often the case. What works very well for one group isn't necessarily of any benefit for others, and often times increases risk. Still, to put it in some semblance of relevance, parked cars on major streets are way more dangerous than riding through residential streets with traffic circles. From a purely cyclists perspective, residential streets without calming are best. It's all about being seen for a cyclist, and anything that gets in the way from that (such as any type of traffic calming) is going to make it more dangerous for us. Motorists fixate on the circle and ignore the cyclist same as on busy streets with parking the cars block us from their line of sight plus they're often distracted looking for parking.

Last edited by Malloric; 04-13-2013 at 05:00 PM..
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:40 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,006 posts, read 102,606,536 times
Reputation: 33064
I don't like roundabouts, but they seem to be the latest thing. My co-worker who lived in Boston says they have a lot of them there; she likes them.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:59 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,104,114 times
Reputation: 3117
Yep they've forever been a New England feature; called rotaries there.

Reduces risk of t-bone collision and keeps traffic moving. There are some situations where this makes sense.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:59 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,718,331 times
Reputation: 9029
We live on a neighborhood street and the street gets pretty busy by people using it as a short cut. the speed limit is 30 mph, people go way over 30.

Very dangerous because we have alot of children on our block.

Me and my across the street neighbor park our cars like shown in the picture.

It does seem to slow people down.
Attached Thumbnails
Traffic calming-untitled.png  
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:31 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,715,982 times
Reputation: 2538
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
We live on a neighborhood street and the street gets pretty busy by people using it as a short cut. the speed limit is 30 mph, people go way over 30.

Very dangerous because we have alot of children on our block.

Me and my across the street neighbor park our cars like shown in the picture.

It does seem to slow people down.
It absolutely works be be size traffic moves organically at the speed drivers feel comfortable at. Signage does not matter at all. If you design and autobahn but sign it 55mph, guess what - you get a lot of speeders going 80, 90, even 100MPH.

Road design this the number one way to dictate how fast traffic travels. If you design a road with narrow lanes and parking on both sides with sidewalks filled with walkers, people will drive cautiously even if you signed it 5MPH. If you instead design wide parkways with 12 foot lanes no on street parkways, grassed curb cuts and turn lanes then and expect people to travel at 30MPH you'll end up with a bunch of speeders.

The best traffic calming device is a well designed street appropriate to its location.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,882,400 times
Reputation: 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
We live on a neighborhood street and the street gets pretty busy by people using it as a short cut. the speed limit is 30 mph, people go way over 30.

Very dangerous because we have alot of children on our block.

Me and my across the street neighbor park our cars like shown in the picture.

It does seem to slow people down.
Have you ever received a speeding ticket before?
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:45 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,718,331 times
Reputation: 9029
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Have you ever received a speeding ticket before?
Yes but i wasnt driving on a neighborhood street.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:09 PM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,005,466 times
Reputation: 1348
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurtsman View Post
What I suggest:
Wider streets -- so people aren't scared of hitting people or things. I feel "calm" when I can drive very safely.
Extra lanes where possible: I don't want to be stuck dealing with a bad driver. Two lanes means I can easily pull over and let him pass.
Traffic circles: They are kind of fun, they remind you to be alert, and they are often faster than a stop sign. After all, few of us want to waste our life sitting at a stop sign.

I like having parking on the side of the street, but it should be kept away from the areas where children are most likely to cross the road. I slow down and go about 10 mph in those areas because I never know when a child will jump out. However, that is the exception. The drivers that you have to worry about in the first place are the ones that just speed with a complete disregard for human life.
Unfortunately, your intuition is out of step with reality.

1) Wider roads are faster roads.

2) More stressful roads are slower (are safer, ironically) roads. By making drivers less comfortable with the situation, they naturally take in more "information," and subconsciously slow down as a result. The brain has processing limits and, the more that must be processed, the slower it acts.

Adding parking, especially jammed against the driving lane, makes drivers nervous. Two-way traffic does the same, as do short sightlines. All of which cause drivers to take in more information and drive more slowly.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,882,400 times
Reputation: 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3 View Post
Yes but i wasnt driving on a neighborhood street.
Well there is the problem. You want people to drive slow in your neighborhood. But you want to drive fast in other peoples neighborhoods.

I never understand people who support speed enforcement. From my experience 100% of all drivers speed. It's basic human nature. Everybody does it. The one exception might be, incompetent senior drivers, who drive at like half the speed limit. But I'm sure that they speed, before they became incompetent.
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