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Old 04-18-2013, 11:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post

I've seen those sort of "roundabouts", and all that they are is an island in the middle of the road. That is not a roundabout - that's just a road hazard.



I agree about the roundabouts, though I have to disagree with stop signs. As a motorist, I resent the fact that there are stop signs everywhere - as soon as you get moving anywhere, you have to stop - driving and traveling are all about moving, not stopping, so I find it to be very off-putting.
Driving on city streets inherently involves a lot of stop and go driving. Traffic calming isn't going to eliminate that. If you don't like stop and go driving then take the freeway. That's what they are for. But even freeways often get congested to the point where you are crawling along at 10 mph while doing a lot of stop and go driving in which case taking surface streets might be faster anyways. The only way to truly avoid stop and go traffic? I don't know except to maybe win the lottery so you can go by personal helicopter or private airplane everyday.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricius Maximus View Post
Not only that, but coming to a full stop so often wastes gasoline - cruising at a steady 15-25 mph is more fuel-efficient than going from 25 to 0 and then 25 again.

Also, motorists will tend to ignore and/or be aggravated by stop signs that are not necessary. Studies have shown that motorists (including myself) increase their speed between the stop signs to make up for time that is unnecessarily lost, so stop signs are a very poor way to calm traffic (or motorists for that matter ).
Can you give a real-world example of a location where you think a stop sign isn't necessary and ought to be removed?

(Stop signs are commonly used at low-volume/low-traffic intersections, primarily in residential areas...where roundabouts would be ineffective and useless. So what do you suggest they be replaced with?)
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:03 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,932,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
What works? What doesn't work? Trying to think of some ideas for my own neighborhood's needs in advance of a planning meeting. Mini roundabouts (or rotaries, in New England parlance) are popping up elsewhere in the city. They seem to be effective, to me.



Speed bumps appear to be out of favor as an effective tool, but I think our city still installs them. I'm not as up to date on other measures as we're a bit behind the state of the art in Baltimore, I think.

I'm aware there are lots of studies, but interested in also hearing anecdotally what people like and don't.
Here spped bumps because of the hazard are not allowed ipublic raoways.the desgin of not being a stright thru stretch but one must remmber its a public not ribate raodway and paid for that way.
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
Driving on city streets inherently involves a lot of stop and go driving. Traffic calming isn't going to eliminate that. If you don't like stop and go driving then take the freeway. That's what they are for. But even freeways often get congested to the point where you are crawling along at 10 mph while doing a lot of stop and go driving in which case taking surface streets might be faster anyways. The only way to truly avoid stop and go traffic? I don't know except to maybe win the lottery so you can go by personal helicopter or private airplane everyday.





Can you give a real-world example of a location where you think a stop sign isn't necessary and ought to be removed?

(Stop signs are commonly used at low-volume/low-traffic intersections, primarily in residential areas...where roundabouts would be ineffective and useless. So what do you suggest they be replaced with?)
This one is INSANELY stupid, right over the bridge in New Jersey.

Google Maps

It'd be much smarter if it were a yield sign, as it basically has a merging lane and goes into a 50 mph highway (with average speeds probably closer to 60-70 at times). It's also on a weird angle, so most people don't even know its there and don't expect it because it's completely idiotic. The good thing is, most people simply don't stop at it and treat it as a yield, it's only when people come to a full stop that there are near accidents every time, sometimes I've even seen some bad rear enders also. This whole intersection needs to be reconfigured and upgraded from it's 1930s-ish design anyway, but thats a whole 'nother thread.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
This one is INSANELY stupid, right over the bridge in New Jersey.

Google Maps

It'd be much smarter if it were a yield sign, as it basically has a merging lane and goes into a 50 mph highway (with average speeds probably closer to 60-70 at times). It's also on a weird angle, so most people don't even know its there and don't expect it because it's completely idiotic. The good thing is, most people simply don't stop at it and treat it as a yield, it's only when people come to a full stop that there are near accidents every time, sometimes I've even seen some bad rear enders also. This whole intersection needs to be reconfigured and upgraded from it's 1930s-ish design anyway, but thats a whole 'nother thread.
And if you do come to a full stop you won't have time to merge with the fast oncoming traffic so it is pretty stupid and likely dangerous. Never seen anything like it before. Is that kind of thing common over there or more of an anomaly? I can't imagine any DOT being that stupid (but maybe they are in that state).
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:47 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
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Lots of those old principal highways in NJ that were retrofitted to semi-expressways have sketchy on ramps.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:06 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
And if you do come to a full stop you won't have time to merge with the fast oncoming traffic so it is pretty stupid and likely dangerous. Never seen anything like it before. Is that kind of thing common over there or more of an anomaly? I can't imagine any DOT being that stupid (but maybe they are in that state).
You learn to press hard on the accelerator and have good timing. It's not common, but I've seen some other examples.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
And if you do come to a full stop you won't have time to merge with the fast oncoming traffic so it is pretty stupid and likely dangerous. Never seen anything like it before. Is that kind of thing common over there or more of an anomaly? I can't imagine any DOT being that stupid (but maybe they are in that state).
Ehh, like HUTD mentioned, theres quite a few onramps in New Jersey on these pseudo-freeway arterials and even major routes that were sort of "retrofitted", and not always thought out. Thankfully, the state is in the process of replacing a lot of this stupidity. Some merges probably need the stop signs, like this one just further up the road, where e/b Rte. 184's ramp merges with n/b US 9, since theres an open lane of traffic and no real merging area (though I think that right thru lane should be closed and made into a merging/accel/decel lane).

Personally, merging up to speed isn't a problem since I have a pretty quick car, though it's a waste of gas of course. Trying to take off from that above stop sign in my old Taurus was a nightmare, forget trying to do it on a hot day with the A/C on...

Here's another ridiculous one, the merge carrying cars from southbound US 1 & 9 on Tonnelle Ave (via the dreaded Tonnelle Circle) to southbound US 1 & 9 on the Pulaski Skyway.

Google Maps

As part of a huge reconstruction project, this one was recently "improved", by adding a short merging lane...which also improves visibility. No updated street view, but this 45 degree satellite view shows it's construction about a year ago.

Google Maps
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,062 posts, read 16,081,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
And if you do come to a full stop you won't have time to merge with the fast oncoming traffic so it is pretty stupid and likely dangerous. Never seen anything like it before. Is that kind of thing common over there or more of an anomaly? I can't imagine any DOT being that stupid (but maybe they are in that state).
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=stock...=12,20,,0,3.81

There yeah go. Limits 65. 99 is full of those dinky little on-ramps, although that's one of the worst. Not much used, but when you get an ag truck coming on the freeway at 20 mph it's always fun.

Treasure Island: Because you are actually supposed to stop at the end of the on-ramp somewhere. And sit there. For a long, long time.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Treas...2,,0,7.93&z=18

Auburn onto 80: Funky with the off-ramp dumping at you.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Aubur...329.8,,0,-7.69

80 Business in Sacramento
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Howe+...2.97,,0,-12.68

Last edited by Malloric; 04-19-2013 at 01:41 AM..
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:07 AM
 
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Saw NEIGHBORHOOD STREET DESIGN GUIDELINES: An Oregon Guide for Reducing Street Widths on Cyburbia. Topical, if dated.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:01 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,265,973 times
Reputation: 2924
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Lots of those old principal highways in NJ that were retrofitted to semi-expressways have sketchy on ramps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
You learn to press hard on the accelerator and have good timing. It's not common, but I've seen some other examples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
Personally, merging up to speed isn't a problem since I have a pretty quick car, though it's a waste of gas of course. Trying to take off from that above stop sign in my old Taurus was a nightmare, forget trying to do it on a hot day with the A/C on...

Here's another ridiculous one, the merge carrying cars from southbound US 1 & 9 on Tonnelle Ave (via the dreaded Tonnelle Circle) to southbound US 1 & 9 on the Pulaski Skyway.

Google Maps

As part of a huge reconstruction project, this one was recently "improved", by adding a short merging lane...which also improves visibility. No updated street view, but this 45 degree satellite view shows it's construction about a year ago.

Google Maps
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
There yeah go. Limits 65. 99 is full of those dinky little on-ramps, although that's one of the worst. Not much used, but when you get an ag truck coming on the freeway at 20 mph it's always fun.

Treasure Island: Because you are actually supposed to stop at the end of the on-ramp somewhere. And sit there. For a long, long time.
Auburn onto 80: Funky with the off-ramp dumping at you.
To me there's nothing worse than a looping on-ramp that suddenly merges into a busy interstate freeway with 65mph cross traffic. There's no stop signs or anything but you can only go 15-20 mph while in the loop. But once near the end of the loop it only gives you about 4 seconds to accelerate to full highway speed before being merged immediately onto the interstate and into a 65mph freeway lane. Might be okay if you're driving a high-end sports car that goes 70mph in 4 seconds but I don't think most people are not even in LA. A potentially terrifying experience not only for the merging driver but also for drivers already in the flow of traffic who are surprised to see this slow-moving vehicle suddenly pop out of nowhere and they are forced to either swerve out of the way or slam on their brakes to avoid slamming into it. You see a few of these badly designed on-ramps in the LA area. Not very common but they do exist there.
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