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Old 04-07-2014, 02:33 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
But in that specific exchange between me and Eddy, we were talking about people riding for leisure. His point was that people doing hard labor would be too tired to ride a bike for leisure. My point is that if they're not too tired for soccer, then they're not too tired to ride a bike. If you've ever played anything close to competitive soccer (tiny tot soccer from age 4 through 10 doesn't count), you know it's one of the most physically taxing sports you can possibly play.
I thought that exchange came originally from why the bikeshare isn't used. If a bicycle is a useful mode of transportation, why should whether people feel a part of "bike culture" matter? I think the more mainstream bicycling is, the less of a bike culture it involves (say in a college town). Few choose to drive because they're part of "car culture", should bicycling as transporation be any different?. Perhaps a bit, because bicycling is a bit of a niche and many people aren't that comfortable with it. In a city like NYC, a bicycle has a lot of the upsides of a car (point to point transportation, nearly as fast for short trips due the frequent lights and congestion) and less of the downsides (cheaper, less parking issues). Downsides are:

1) Traffic can be scary on bigger roads
2) Weather
3) Bike theft
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:47 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, now, that's not what wburg told us! He told us bicyclists have more money to spend than drivers, either in this thread or another one on here in the last couple of days. Frankly, I'm more inclined to agree with you.
I don't really agree with wburg on that, too, but that's a separate issue from my post. All I said was that the people in Bajan's video don't have much disposable income [they're mostly recent Hispanic immigrants and likely not well off]. Owning a bicycle rather than a car would make economic sense for them as they don't have much disposable income.
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Old 04-07-2014, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I thought that exchange came originally from why the bikeshare isn't used. If a bicycle is a useful mode of transportation, why should whether people feel a part of "bike culture" matter?
I don't think it should matter. Every statement I've made thus far has been descriptive, not normative. That "bike culture" is largely upper middle class and white (and to a large extent male) is a fact separate from the question of cycling's usefulness.

That said, I think the stats from Capital Bikeshare may underscore some legitimate cultural differences that percolate to the surface during the Great Debate over Gentrification. On the one hand, you have people saying "How can you not like bike lanes and bikeshare, they're for everybody!" Then on the other hand, you have people saying "No, they're for you." So in that sense "bike culture," which is in essence a subset of upper middle class white culture, can become problematic, particularly when one group perceives the creation of things like bike lanes as the elevation of another group's values and priorities over their own.
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Old 04-09-2014, 07:37 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I don't think it should matter. Every statement I've made thus far has been descriptive, not normative. That "bike culture" is largely upper middle class and white (and to a large extent male) is a fact separate from the question of cycling's usefulness.

That said, I think the stats from Capital Bikeshare may underscore some legitimate cultural differences that percolate to the surface during the Great Debate over Gentrification. On the one hand, you have people saying "How can you not like bike lanes and bikeshare, they're for everybody!" Then on the other hand, you have people saying "No, they're for you." So in that sense "bike culture," which is in essence a subset of upper middle class white culture, can become problematic, particularly when one group perceives the creation of things like bike lanes as the elevation of another group's values and priorities over their own.
So can there be a way of targeted messaging that would include people that currently aren't too keen on biking? From that previous post of spreading the right message to south side chicago residents, it seems so.

Sucks if people have to look to Europe or Asia for it. I kind of doubt popularizing bikes in Africa would make a big difference here, but who knows.
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Old 04-09-2014, 07:48 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Where are the bikeshare stations placed? The NYC ones are placed in mostly well-off center city neighborhoods (Manhattan below about 62nd street) and some gentrifying parts of Brooklyn just across the East River. I assume DC's bikeshare is similar. So a well-off ridership is expected.

There are some bikeshare stations in/next housing projects and project residents get a discounted rate. Many of the Lower Manhattan projects are a bit far from the subway, making them a useful option. Are they using it? Maybe not, but the source is a bit old.

Citi Bike Signups Scarce Among Poor New Yorkers, Data Show - Lower East Side - DNAinfo.com New York
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
Where are the bikeshare stations placed? The NYC ones are placed in mostly well-off center city neighborhoods (Manhattan below about 62nd street) and some gentrifying parts of Brooklyn just across the East River. I assume DC's bikeshare is similar. So a well-off ridership is expected.
Capital Bikeshare is not nearly as skewed as Citi Bike. Since DC taxpayer money is used to subsisidize it, the distribution must be more equitable. There are still a lot of Black people in dense, centrally located DC neighborhoods like Petworth/Columbia Heights (majority black/Hispanic), Shaw (majority black), Ledroit Park/Bloomingdale (majority black), Southwest (majority black), Truxton (majority black), H Street (majority black) and Eckington (majority black). Then Howard University and UDC have stations near their campuses and those are historically black colleges.

If you controlled for income and geography (there are still a number of professional blacks living around U Street, 16th Street, Bloomingdale, etc.), my guess would be that non-whites would still be less likely (probably far less likely) to have CaBi memberships. I have no hard data to substantiate this. It's just one of those things I have a sense for after living there and interacting primarily with that demographic. Among my own circle, I get the sense that people are not averse to the idea, but don't really find it that appealing.

I think it's a very particular demographic that's into bikeshare. If you put a whole bunch of stations in white, working-class Northeast Philadelphia, I don't think ridership would be anything close to what it would be in Yuppier Manayunk.
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
So can there be a way of targeted messaging that would include people that currently aren't too keen on biking? From that previous post of spreading the right message to south side chicago residents, it seems so.
I don't think so. Anything is possible, but in this case, I doubt it. It's just a cultural diference that won't be easily reconciled by putting a black face on it. You could put a black face on coffee, camping and craft beers. That doesn't mean black people will necessarily take to it. Cycling is just one of those things we don't get into like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Sucks if people have to look to Europe or Asia for it. I kind of doubt popularizing bikes in Africa would make a big difference here, but who knows.
Actually, bikes are popular in Africa. In Johannesburg, there are bike riders everywhere. But I guess the snarky implication here is that if African Americans had a "black" international model to emulate (the way White Americans have a "white" European model to emulate), then we would possibly see higher rates of black cycling here in the U.S.

When I say that there is a lot of European adulation/admiration/emulation, I'm not saying that tongue in cheek. In urbanism circles, there's a lot of comparison to cities like Copenhagen, Amsterdam, etc. People visit those cities and say "Hey, why don't we have trams, high speed trains and cycling tracks all over the place like that?!?" In Amsterdam, cycling may be just another form of transportation, but in the U.S., cycling among the urban gentry is a bit of a status marker. It's "European" and "cool" and has much of the same cachet that soccer has in the U.S.
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Maybe Pharrell Williams can usher in "black" bike culture.


Pharrell (N.E.R.D) "Provider" (official music video) (new song 2009) + DOwnload - YouTube
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Old 04-10-2014, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I think it's a very particular demographic that's into bikeshare. If you put a whole bunch of stations in white, working-class Northeast Philadelphia, I don't think ridership would be anything close to what it would be in Yuppier Manayunk.
This is one of the ways the Bay Area can be a little different than DC. There are lots of hipsters biking for transportation. Yuppies racing. Granola-types riding their bikes. But if you let's say go to the bike parking near transit stations or even Whole Foods and Trader Joes it is more diverse than you'd expect. But on the other hand, I live in middle to upper middle class Oakland. When you head over to the other side of town, things are a little different. Biking is actually pretty popular in the Latino area, Fruitvale. Both hipsters and working class Latinos. In other parts (like more black east Oakland) it is different, not quite as bike friendly for a few reasons (infrastructure, landscape and perception of safety on the street). The middle class areas on that side are hilly. Really hilly. Not too fun for biking.
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Old 04-13-2014, 12:10 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I don't think so. Anything is possible, but in this case, I doubt it. It's just a cultural diference that won't be easily reconciled by putting a black face on it. You could put a black face on coffee, camping and craft beers. That doesn't mean black people will necessarily take to it. Cycling is just one of those things we don't get into like that.



Actually, bikes are popular in Africa. In Johannesburg, there are bike riders everywhere. But I guess the snarky implication here is that if African Americans had a "black" international model to emulate (the way White Americans have a "white" European model to emulate), then we would possibly see higher rates of black cycling here in the U.S.

When I say that there is a lot of European adulation/admiration/emulation, I'm not saying that tongue in cheek. In urbanism circles, there's a lot of comparison to cities like Copenhagen, Amsterdam, etc. People visit those cities and say "Hey, why don't we have trams, high speed trains and cycling tracks all over the place like that?!?" In Amsterdam, cycling may be just another form of transportation, but in the U.S., cycling among the urban gentry is a bit of a status marker. It's "European" and "cool" and has much of the same cachet that soccer has in the U.S.
Yea, that was a joke.

You can probably put a black face on things and popularize it. It's just that someone would need to fund the marketing.
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