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Old 04-17-2013, 09:48 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,110,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post

But when the goal is explicitly to make driving more unpleasant, those in favor of "traffic calming" have pretty much tipped their hand. It's all about hatred of the automobile, nothing more..
Bombast! I own a car and I like it quite a bit. It's about reclaiming space formerly ceded exclusively to cars. Mode choice. It's not all or nothing ... as your estimation of our desires has indicated.

NY's curbed and signaled bike lanes are quite dandy, btw. Nice not to have some guy who thinks he is entitled to the WHOLE road riding my back bumper.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
42nd Street has to be high on the list. So does Canal. In general I think Philly is worse to drive in than Manhattan, however; in Manhattan there's more often an alternate route.

But when the goal is explicitly to make driving more unpleasant, those in favor of "traffic calming" have pretty much tipped their hand. It's all about hatred of the automobile, nothing more.

Closing Manhattan roads to car traffic would probably make them even worse for bicycle riders; it's much easier riding with car traffic than through pedestrian traffic.
Which is why I propose aggressive traffic calming and strategic closures.

Private automobile usage should not be encouraged in the 2 primary CBDs. Pedestrian density is already beyond capacity for the sidewalks as configured during the day in most of Midtown. That's why you see people walking in the bike lanes.

Enhance the traffic calming, slow down, reduce, and limit the lane width, and it will be safer to bike among traffic. No protected lanes needed. Not if the traffic is running at 15 MPH in 2 narrow lanes with mid block traffic lights, speed bumps, rumble strips, red light and speed cameras everywhere.

Last edited by nykiddo718718; 04-17-2013 at 10:18 PM..
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:10 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,269,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
But when the goal is explicitly to make driving more unpleasant, those in favor of "traffic calming" have pretty much tipped their hand. It's all about hatred of the automobile, nothing more.

Closing Manhattan roads to car traffic would probably make them even worse for bicycle riders; it's much easier riding with car traffic than through pedestrian traffic.

Nah. People just hate traffic congestion and dangerous speeders
who treat city streets as if they were racing in the Indy 500.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:13 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,110,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
Nah. People just hate traffic congestion and dangerous speeders
who treat city streets as if they were racing in the Indy 500.
Man charged with manslaughter in fatal City Hall crash - Baltimore Sun Like this guy, who was able to crank it up to 100 on our extra widened downtown streets before killing a pedestrian.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Man charged with manslaughter in fatal City Hall crash - Baltimore Sun Like this guy, who was able to crank it up to 100 on our extra widened downtown streets before killing a pedestrian.
If that happened in NYC the driver wouldn't be charged with anything.

Incredible but that kind of thing where drivers are jumping curbs and mowing down pedestrians who are on the sidewalk is actually a pretty common phenomenon on NY city streets and happens on a daily basis. I only wish I were exaggerating. And the cops tend to encourage this kind of thing because they rarely prosecute the driver for anything no matter how reckless they are.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:33 PM
 
1,682 posts, read 2,724,284 times
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Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
If that happened in NYC the driver wouldn't be charged with anything.

Incredible but that kind of thing where drivers are jumping curbs and mowing down pedestrians who are on the sidewalk is actually a pretty common phenomenon on NY city streets and happens on a daily basis. I only wish I were exaggerating. And the cops tend to encourage this kind of thing because they rarely prosecute the driver for anything no matter how reckless they are.
Over 15,000 pedestrians and cyclists were injured in New York City traffic in 2012, and 155 were killed, according to NYPD data reports compiled by Streetsblog.

NYPD: 15,465 Pedestrians and Cyclists Injured, 155 Killed in Traffic in 2012 | Streetsblog New York City
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 408,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nykiddo718718 View Post
Which is why I propose aggressive traffic calming and strategic closures.

Private automobile usage should not be encouraged in the 2 primary CBDs. Pedestrian density is already beyond capacity for the sidewalks as configured during the day in most of Midtown. That's why you see people walking in the bike lanes.

Enhance the traffic calming, slow down, reduce, and limit the lane width, and it will be safer to bike among traffic. No protected lanes needed. Not if the traffic is running at 15 MPH in 2 narrow lanes with mid block traffic lights, speed bumps, rumble strips, red light and speed cameras everywhere.
Hmm, I don't know...for one, I don't see all of your suggestions happening, at least any time soon. A few have already been done, and a few more may be implemented, but I don't see a full scale agressive private auto discouragement taking place. People who are going to drive into Manhattan are going to drive in, unless they have a better alternative that they think will work. Building more mass transit infrastructure would go a lot further at reducing the amount of trips into the city. Even so, you'll always have people who are going to drive in anyway, myself included.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:22 PM
 
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Just another day in the big apple!


Immune From Prosecution, Curb-Jumping NYC Motorists Claim More Victims

April 8, 2013
by Brad Aaron

Denim McLean, the toddler who was one of 10 people struck by a curb-jumping
motorist in East Flatbush last month, died from his injuries...The victims included Denim’s mother, Wendy McLean, who remains in a coma...

...In the words of Council Member Peter Vallone Jr., this crash is another example of NYPD acting as defense counsel for the driver. More important, it again points to a justice system that cares less about the car on the bloody sidewalk than the feelings of the motorist who put it there.

...Days before the crash that killed Denim McLean, the Post talked to attorney Steve Vaccaro about motorists who have escaped charges for recent curb-jumping incidents that resulted in death or injury. Of the driver who put 90-year-old Mansoor Day in extremely critical condition, an anonymous source said the “Manhattan District Attorney’s Office found that his behavior did not amount to criminality.” Likewise, the drivers who killed pedestrians Tenzin Drudak in Queens and Martha Atwater in Brooklyn were not charged for causing a death.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 9,947,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynborndad View Post
1. how does the reverse commute thing work? Here in DC, its simply no bikes allowed on metro from I guess 6 AM or so to 7PM. They dont distinguish which direction you are going in. Do they in NYC?
I'm in Boston. Was in LA. Never lived in NYC. LA didn't have a bikeshare (that I know of), but I did commute by bicycle along a dedicated bikeway which ran pretty much the entire 15 miles between home and work. Boston has a bikeshare but I don't use it for the reasons cited.

Boston's light rail (not subway) allows bicycles anytime that is not considered peak hours. Peak hours are inbound to the city from 6AM to 9AM and outbound 4PM to 7PM. I rode outbound around 7:30, so I could bring my bike onboard.

Taipei, Taiwan, has a bikeshare. I think it works with the metrocard as I described. You tap your card and get charged approximately the same as a bus ride. I do think you have to store some extra information on the card or put down a big deposit to ensure you don't steal a bicycle. I'm fine with a refundable deposit or putting in my credit card info, I just don't want to pay an extra ~$100 per year to be able to ride the bikeshare.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:55 AM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,816 posts, read 10,722,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
But when the goal is explicitly to make driving more unpleasant, those in favor of "traffic calming" have pretty much tipped their hand. It's all about hatred of the automobile, nothing more.
1. in general thats not the goal of traffic calming. Its not even to reduce the average speed of traffic. Its to reduce the extreme of speeding. In some instances, this can actually increase average speed - because it reduces the number of collisions, and thus incident related congestion. On many suburban arterials, incident related congestion is a very significant portion of all congestion. depending on how many incidents are related to extreme speed, and what proportion of drivers go over the limit, you can see how traffic calming COULD increase average speed.

2. Thats aside from the more general notion of "pleasant". I'm a driver, and I prefer not to go over the limit on residential roads, suburban arterials, etc. The folks who ge well over the limit make driving less pleasant for me. A traffic calmed street, even if it does not have a higher average speed, can be a more pleasant driving experience.

Note, Im not thinking of Manhattan, but of more typical examples of traffic calming.

3. Even where the goal IS to reduce auto usage, thats not necessarily a matter of "hatred" for the auto. I like my car, and drive to places where it provides convenience. But I also like a choice of modes, and for the sake of the planet, would be happy if people drove somewhat less. So I can support policies that encourage shift to other modes - but that does not mean I "hate" autos.
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