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Old 04-26-2013, 08:35 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
That is certainly not true. There is nothing about an suburban office park which prevents people from driving in from far away, and indeed they do. For a while I was driving from Collegeville, PA to an office park in Newtown, PA, about 50 miles away. Took me about 50 minutes. It takes me an hour (mostly by rail) to get from my place in suburban New Jersey to my office in New York City, which is 15 miles away.
Not a completely fair comparison as you can cover more distance in a less congested area. In a large metro area, a non-centralized location is less convenient. If an office moves from Midtown Manhattan to Paramus, NJ, all the Long Island (as well as Queens and maybe Brooklyn) employees discover they have a hideous commute. The centralized location is equally somewhat inconvenient for everyone but impractical for few. Partially a relic of the unique of the area, but somewhat true elsewhere in large metros.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:10 AM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
99% of the country is already covered in sprawl.
Proof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
There's no more room left.
Proof?

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Old 04-27-2013, 02:57 AM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,713,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prelude91 View Post
This is false.
It's not false if the only metric you use is cost/SF.

That doesn't make his point any less inane.
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:11 AM
 
12,291 posts, read 15,187,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Not a completely fair comparison as you can cover more distance in a less congested area. In a large metro area, a non-centralized location is less convenient. If an office moves from Midtown Manhattan to Paramus, NJ, all the Long Island (as well as Queens and maybe Brooklyn) employees discover they have a hideous commute. The centralized location is equally somewhat inconvenient for everyone but impractical for few. Partially a relic of the unique of the area, but somewhat true elsewhere in large metros.
New York may be the worst case since you have to drive through the city, but Chicago, which has a beltway around it, also has that problem. Often commuters to western suburbs from the north or south are glad to find a job in the loop.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,061 posts, read 16,070,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
Densely populated cities are good for large projects, bringing people together. It works best when there is a comprehensive rail network that can bring people in from the whole metro. Typically suburban sprawl office parks can only draw from that suburban market.
That's why we have airports.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:10 PM
 
Location: West Cedar Park, Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
That's why we have airports.
You're going to commute in your private jet, eh?
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:11 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,061 posts, read 16,070,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy View Post
You're going to commute in your private jet, eh?
Exactly. I'm going to commute from my house in suburb A to my office in suburb B ten miles away from my house. That's far more cost effective than driving which I can't do according to pvande55. Actually, according to pvandee55, I can't even commute via my private jet since no one from outside of suburb A is allowed to go to the office parks in Suburb A.
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:59 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,793 posts, read 10,707,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Exactly. I'm going to commute from my house in suburb A to my office in suburb B ten miles away from my house. That's far more cost effective than driving which I can't do according to pvande55. Actually, according to pvandee55, I can't even commute via my private jet since no one from outside of suburb A is allowed to go to the office parks in Suburb A.
I read pvande as saying merely that a suburban office park can draw from a smaller area than a downtown. broadly speaking, thats true.

here in Greater DC we have to very large employment centers - downtown DC, and Tysons Corner. Downtown DC draws from an area spanning from fredericksburg VA in the south, to baltimore and the Pennsylvania line in the north - from the chesapeake bay, to west virginia. Large numbers commute in via transit and commuter rail - despite a relatively limited commuter rail system.

Tysons basically draws from the western side of the metro area, on the Va side of the river. Commuting from northeast and from the south is constrained by highway capacity, which is difficult to expand. Tysons is smaller in #of jobs than downtown DC, and commands lower office rents, and currently has a higher office vacancy rate. Its auto LOS levels are approaching failure, IIUC. In order to grow, the region is extending metro rail there - but its costly, with debatable ROI, due to the intrinsic difficulties of serving a suburban center by rail. And it will help only with the reverse commuters from the core, and the inbound commuters from the northwest. Its not clear if there is any justifiable rail solution from the NoVa suburbs to the south, or from maryland. Tysons can grow anyway, as the corridor it does have comparative advantage on - northwest - has very high concentrations of educated workers. But it does not have, and will not have, the same breadth of access to a broad labor pool that downtown has.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:53 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,148,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
That is certainly not true. There is nothing about an suburban office park which prevents people from driving in from far away, and indeed they do. For a while I was driving from Collegeville, PA to an office park in Newtown, PA, about 50 miles away. Took me about 50 minutes. It takes me an hour (mostly by rail) to get from my place in suburban New Jersey to my office in New York City, which is 15 miles away.

422 must have been god or you left before 6:15

Get your point though

Though getting to Cherry Hill from Collegeville, well 50 minutes on very good days and much longer most
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:13 AM
 
Location: South Portland, ME
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In a service based economy, I think dense population is even more important.

Service based jobs pay less than manufacturing jobs used to, therefore it makes more sense for the employees to live as close as possible to their jobs (to be able to walk, or at least take public transportation; both much cheaper than driving). Also, it's better for businesses to be located in dense areas to have a wider consumer base. So a restaurant or similar "service" job will fare much better in dense areas compared to sparse ones.

What the OP suggests is why so many Americans are struggling. They bought into the myth that you can live far away from your job and be just fine. You can't. Long commutes sharply decrease your quality of life (increases stress, decreases amount of time you have to spend at home doing what you want, etc.), not to mention the further away you live, the more you pay to get back and forth to work (aka your wage decreases because your work expenses increase).
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