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Old 04-27-2013, 05:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post

And in the least amount of time, with the least hassle possible. There are very few places where public transit of any kind fills those wants.

Millions of suburbanites travel by BART commuter rail into San Francisco's financial district every morning because it is much faster than sitting in your car stuck in freeway gridlock for two hours a day. And you get to deal with the parking headaches on top of that. Driving into the city at rush hour? Good luck. Commuting into the country's major job centers would be impractical if not impossible without rail transit.
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Old 04-27-2013, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,377 posts, read 59,836,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
Commuting into the country's major job centers would be impractical if not impossible without rail transit.
Depends on where you live, and where you work. Most people don't commute to jobs in San Francisco or New York; lots of people work in cities, but not downtown.

I work in Philadelphia, but not downtown. For me to take a bus from home to work would involve a minimum of three transfers, and a 90-minute ride to go 13 miles.
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Old 04-27-2013, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,879,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
Trolley buses, sometimes called "trackless trolleys" were quite a bit more common when I was a kid in the Fifties, but cities like Harrisburg and Wilkes-Barre eventually gave up on them because of the high cost of maintaining the caternary (overhead wiring). To the best of my knowledge, only Seattle, San Francisco and Dayton(?) still have them, and it's been a few years since I'vr had the opportunity to check.
Boston, Dayton, Philadelphia, San Francisco, and Seattle. Though I would expect them to all be obsolete within the next few decades. Streetcars OTOH will be around forever.

Trolleybus usage by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:15 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
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Trolleybuses are exceptionally useful for steep grades ... So maybe seattles will be around for a while.
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,734 posts, read 9,845,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high iron View Post
Your argument depends on the value judgement packed into one loaded word: 'economical".
Laws of Physics is one authority for value judgement ...
In terms of consumption of resources, economical fits.
Surface area - check
Energy consumed - check (20:1 advantage over rubber tire on pavement)
Rolling stock - check
Less polluting - check (no fumes, no shredding tires, no oil drips)
Lower infrastructure cost (over long term) - check

Beyond economical, we also have scaleability
To carry more passengers / cargo on existing track, one can decrease headway, increase number of cars, etc.

Potential for increased velocity - check

Bottom line :
If you have a finite amount of fuel / energy, you can move the most cargo / passengers with electric traction rail.
If you don't have to worry about the cost for fuel, then don't use rail.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
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Interesting compendium of trolley route maps:
Maps of your city's historic trolley lines - SkyscraperPage Forum
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Phoenix,az
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Interesting compendium of trolley route maps:
Maps of your city's historic trolley lines - SkyscraperPage Forum
wow at phoenix
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:34 PM
 
4,023 posts, read 3,265,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Depends on where you live, and where you work. Most people don't commute to jobs in San Francisco or New York; lots of people work in cities, but not downtown.

I work in Philadelphia, but not downtown. For me to take a bus from home to work would involve a minimum of three transfers, and a 90-minute ride to go 13 miles.

What about Septa commuter rail? I'm sure you're familiar with it. With 150 stations it's a pretty extensive system in the area, about three times as big as BART. But even if you're not near a station and can't use it you still benefit as a driver from reduced congestion with all the cars removed from the roads that might otherwise be there.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
One of the things I like about modern streetcars and light rail are the separate cabins that physically isolates the operator from the passengers. Allowing the driver to operate the train free from distractions from passengers, greatly improving safety. Passengers can board anywhere, front or rear of the train because they buy a ticket before boarding. The operator never has to deal with passengers and fares and can focus solely on operating the train.

Edit: This also greatly improves your travel times because you can board immediately without standing in a long line in front of the bus waiting for everybody to put their money in the machine.

But on a bus passengers have to board the front of the bus so the driver can collect fares from everyone getting on. Which can and does result in disputes and conflicts between driver and passengers about not having the right transfer, not enough money, passengers who may refuse to pay, etc. Bus drivers have to deal with all kinds of problematic passengers on a daily basis which raises their stress level making them more prone to accidents because they are facing constant distractions from their driving duties. They not only drive the bus but also have to act as fare collector, customer service agent and security guard all at once. If someone doesn't want to pay they have to kick them off the bus and they may not want to get off. Bus drivers are vulnerable to physical assault at anytime since there is no physical barrier between them and the passengers. I'm guessing it must be a fairly high turn-over occupation.
Except while most buses do operate (and probably should just operate) this way, high volume lines do not need to.

MTA Planning | Select Bus Service

So you don't need to have streetcars or any kind of rail to have off board fare collection and other "rail" type enhancements.
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,062 posts, read 16,078,369 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
What about Septa commuter rail? I'm sure you're familiar with it. With 150 stations it's a pretty extensive system in the area, about three times as big as BART. But even if you're not near a station and can't use it you still benefit as a driver from reduced congestion with all the cars removed from the roads that might otherwise be there.
What about the roads?

I'm not sure you're familiar with it. With tens of thousands of roads, it's much bigger than 150 stations. But even if you have anxiety takes in a car and can't use it, you still benefit as a transit rider from the reduced congestion with all the would-be passengers removed from public transit that might otherwise being using it.
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