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Old 04-28-2013, 09:30 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
What about Septa commuter rail? I'm sure you're familiar with it. With 150 stations it's a pretty extensive system in the area, about three times as big as BART. But even if you're not near a station and can't use it you still benefit as a driver from reduced congestion with all the cars removed from the roads that might otherwise be there.
She doesn't work downtown. It might be useful if her job was on the same line as the one that passes through her home.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
She doesn't work downtown. It might be useful if her job was on the same line as the one that passes through her home.
It is, but it's a 1.5-mile walk to the office from the station. Uphill, too. *pant* That certainly would add time to the commute.

My point was that even if you live and work in heavily populated areas, public transit might not necessarily be a viable option, let alone an convenient one.

But heaven help me, Cisco Kid is correct that public transit does take cars off the roads; public transit obviously works for many. Philadelphia's traffic is effed up enough already; I'd hate to see what it would be like during a transit strike.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
Except while most buses do operate (and probably should just operate) this way, high volume lines do not need to.

MTA Planning | Select Bus Service

So you don't need to have streetcars or any kind of rail to have off board fare collection and other "rail" type enhancements.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but its still a bus. And sounds like a lawn mower while idling at the bus stop. And a lawn mower might be an understatement. More like a jackhammer.


a late model 2009 MTA bus, runs on CNG

MTA NYCT Bus: 2009 Orion VII NG B31 & B2 Buses #4223 & #4571 at Nostrand Ave-Ave R - YouTube
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
You can put lipstick on a pig, but its still a bus. And sounds like a lawn mower while idling at the bus stop. And a lawn mower might be an understatement. More like a jackhammer.


a late model 2009 MTA bus, runs on CNG

MTA NYCT Bus: 2009 Orion VII NG B31 & B2 Buses #4223 & #4571 at Nostrand Ave-Ave R - YouTube
I've ridden buses before, I know what they sound like. I've also been on rail transit before that was very loud as well, sharp underground curves of subway systems for example. Either way, your post is completely irrelevant to the point I was making.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
I've ridden buses before, I know what they sound like. I've also been on rail transit before that was very loud as well, sharp underground curves of subway systems for example. Either way, your post is completely irrelevant to the point I was making.

I prefer streetcars to subways myself. The tunnel noise of older subway systems that go mostly underground can make them unbearable, e.g. the NYC subway. But commuter rail systems such as BART are mostly above ground so noise isn't such a problem. The tunnels are what make them noisy not the trains themselves. At or above grade they are pretty quiet. The Montreal metro use rubberized wheels and other sound dampening materials to reduce tunnel noise and it works pretty good.

But I don't think there's much hope for those god-awful noisy MTA buses.
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
not only street cars but all rail is hidiously expensive.
A streetcar / tram might cost 1.2 million (in today's $$$), but it has a useful lifespan of multiple decades if not centuries.
A $400,000 bus is ready for replacement in 9 to 11 years - and its diesel engine may need replacing every 4 - 7 years.
A rail right of way can last over a century (load dependent) without much repair... or still be usable despite being in miserable condition.
A paved road may need resurfacing every 3 to 5 years. And once it has decayed to a mess of potholes it is barely usable.

Road damage is roughly proportional to the fourth power of the axle load. A 20,000 lb axle causes 16 times as much damage as a 10,000 axle, and 160,000 times as much damage as a 1,000 lb axle (wider tires mitigate the effect slightly). 99% of the traffic damage to roads and highways comes from trucks and buses, while only 33.7% of the cost is borne by them.

Over time, it is the bus and paved road that is hideously expensive.
I suggest reading what the civil engineers report about the cost estimate for repairing America's decaying infrastructure. It is a stupendous figure.

Last edited by jetgraphics; 04-28-2013 at 05:33 PM..
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
I've also been on rail transit before that was very loud as well, sharp underground curves of subway systems for example.
The steel "squeal" is due to the solid axle forcing one of the wheels to slip as it follows the bend.
Some new trains that have no axle eliminate the "squeal" (or some use lubricant).

For example, Talgo train wheels are not joined at the axle.
Talgo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
I prefer streetcars to subways myself. The tunnel noise of older subway systems that go mostly underground can make them unbearable, e.g. the NYC subway. But commuter rail systems such as BART are mostly above ground so noise isn't such a problem. The tunnels are what make them noisy not the trains themselves. At or above grade they are pretty quiet. The Montreal metro use rubberized wheels and other sound dampening materials to reduce tunnel noise and it works pretty good.

But I don't think there's much hope for those god-awful noisy MTA buses.
Meh, the whole noise thing is irrelevant to me, since I prefer cars anyway. My car is pretty quiet, though I'd love an old noisy V8 car to restore one day and cruise around on the weekends. As far as public transit goes, the only real transit I'd have to ride into Manhattan is the express bus, which had big comfortable coach seats that I can sleep in, on relatively quiet MCI and Prevost coach buses. I'd rather be on one of those every day versus being on any kind of rail, outside of high-seat backed comfortable commuter rail which isn't an option in my area. I did the light rail/streetcar commute for a while, and I found it was horrible. Usually had to stand, and the crappy seats hurt my back. The best part of that commute was getting in my car back at the park and ride and having the nice padded lumbar supported seat to relax in the rest of the way home, even with traffic.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
The steel "squeal" is due to the solid axle forcing one of the wheels to slip as it follows the bend.
Some new trains that have no axle eliminate the "squeal" (or some use lubricant).

For example, Talgo train wheels are not joined at the axle.
Talgo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I've ridden/seen trains which don't have the axle squeal issue, I was just referring to the subways I've ridden (mainly NYC and Washington, D.C. that make the sound). I don't think NYC subway trains will be built to eliminate the sound anytime soon, however IIRC, they'd begun a program a few years ago to replace all roughly ~850 miles of track with continuously-welded rail to reduce the classic clunk-clunk-clunk sound.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:27 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,989,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepRightPassLeft View Post
I've ridden/seen trains which don't have the axle squeal issue, I was just referring to the subways I've ridden (mainly NYC and Washington, D.C. that make the sound). I don't think NYC subway trains will be built to eliminate the sound anytime soon, however IIRC, they'd begun a program a few years ago to replace all roughly ~850 miles of track with continuously-welded rail to reduce the classic clunk-clunk-clunk sound.
Which ones don't have the axle squeal issue?
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