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Old 05-03-2013, 06:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The bold is kind of weird to me. I really don't care where people live/work, but to me if one is "committed" to urban life, that should mean working in the city as well. I remember someone on the Denver forum who lives in some New Urbanist development saying that one of her neighbors is so committed to NU that he lives in her 'hood and drives 1 1/2 hours to the Denver Tech Center (each way) to work. I said that seemed rather antithetical to the NU lifestyle.



You know, for all some people on this forum absolutely rant about road subsidies, auto subsidies, etc, it seems extremely hypocritical for them to propose transit subsidies. I'm not specifically thinking of you, just sayin'. ALL transit is subsidized.



Ha, Ha, Ha! Denver's current transit tax is 1% throughout the RTD. The RTD board wisely decided not to ask the taxpayers for more money for their rail boondoggle called Fastracks. Therefore, it is likely never to be finished. We have a good system, but we don't have the majority of people living 5-10 min from a transit stop that runs every 20 minutes. It would take a lot more than that to achieve such a system.

RTD

It's a total crock that there are a lot of people driving 1/2 mile just to pick up milk.

When most of your life happens within a 10 minute walk of your front door, I'd say you have a pretty constrained life.
Not necessarily. It depends more upon what's contained within that 10 minute walk that really determines how constrained your life is. I know that my world is much richer than many of my suburban counterparts, simply because I have greater access to a wider variety of amenities, cultural events, and a more diverse group of individuals. A ten minute or less walk in any direction of where I currently live lands me at art house movie theaters, restaurants that span the globe in cuisines, excellent shopping, live theater, live music, world-renowned health care, yoga, pilates, used book stores, great coffee/tea shops, fantastic hair salons, a bike trail, farmer's markets, Whole Foods, and a generally well-educated, well-traveled group of individuals. Not to mention that within that same ten minutes or less, I'm surrounded by an incredible amount of American history that the modern parts of my city have been built around. Even a ten-minute drive in the suburbs can't generally provide all that I can walk to in my neighborhood, particularly not the charm and exquisite beauty and character of my city. I mean, how much character do you really see in big box stores and tree-less McMansions?

 
Old 05-03-2013, 06:57 PM
 
1,111 posts, read 1,448,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Do you think the recession had anything to do with not wanting a car?

Detroit Boosted By Truck Sales; Honda, Nissan Gain : NPR
**DETROIT (AP) Ford, GM, Chrysler and Nissan all reported double-digit U.S. sales increases last month, signaling the best April for car and truck sales in six years.
Yeah, but they are just "channel stuffing". Meaning they are requiring dealers to buy them.

**********

I'll be dang if I will walk or peddle a bike 10 miles round trip for a gallon of milk. You can not survive here in south florida without a vehicle of some kind.(well some do, but I reckon it's less than 2%.)
 
Old 05-03-2013, 07:00 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,989,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregm View Post
I'll be dang if I will walk or peddle a bike 10 miles round trip for a gallon of milk. You can not survive here in south florida without a vehicle of some kind.(well some do, but I reckon it's less than 2%.)
Florida QuickLinks from the US Census Bureau

6.6% of Florida households have no vehicle.
 
Old 05-03-2013, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,426 posts, read 11,933,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katykat01 View Post
Not necessarily. It depends more upon what's contained within that 10 minute walk that really determines how constrained your life is. I know that my world is much richer than many of my suburban counterparts, simply because I have greater access to a wider variety of amenities, cultural events, and a more diverse group of individuals. A ten minute or less walk in any direction of where I currently live lands me at art house movie theaters, restaurants that span the globe in cuisines, excellent shopping, live theater, live music, world-renowned health care, yoga, pilates, used book stores, great coffee/tea shops, fantastic hair salons, a bike trail, farmer's markets, Whole Foods, and a generally well-educated, well-traveled group of individuals. Not to mention that within that same ten minutes or less, I'm surrounded by an incredible amount of American history that the modern parts of my city have been built around. Even a ten-minute drive in the suburbs can't generally provide all that I can walk to in my neighborhood, particularly not the charm and exquisite beauty and character of my city. I mean, how much character do you really see in big box stores and tree-less McMansions?
I remember when I visited friends who lived in Brooklyn, I was always surprised they didn't want to go to Manhattan for dinner or something because "it's like 45 minutes on the subway." For the most part, the didn't leave their neighborhood.

But this is how density works in the end. If all your needs are dealt with within your neighborhood, you will seldom leave it unless you have reason to do so. If your city has hundreds of interchangeable bars, coffeeshops, or Thai restaurants, and you like the ones closest to you just fine, why bother roaming?
 
Old 05-03-2013, 07:04 PM
 
Location: southern california
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the american love affair with cars is a product of a period of great affluence about 60 years worth. its over.
another huge factor is in the 50's a car allowed u to have a sex life. now they just take the person home to mom's house and do it there.

Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 05-03-2013 at 07:17 PM..
 
Old 05-03-2013, 07:13 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,011 posts, read 102,621,396 times
Reputation: 33075
Quote:
Originally Posted by katykat01 View Post
Not necessarily. It depends more upon what's contained within that 10 minute walk that really determines how constrained your life is. I know that my world is much richer than many of my suburban counterparts, simply because I have greater access to a wider variety of amenities, cultural events, and a more diverse group of individuals. A ten minute or less walk in any direction of where I currently live lands me at art house movie theaters, restaurants that span the globe in cuisines, excellent shopping, live theater, live music, world-renowned health care, yoga, pilates, used book stores, great coffee/tea shops, fantastic hair salons, a bike trail, farmer's markets, Whole Foods, and a generally well-educated, well-traveled group of individuals. Not to mention that within that same ten minutes or less, I'm surrounded by an incredible amount of American history that the modern parts of my city have been built around. Even a ten-minute drive in the suburbs can't generally provide all that I can walk to in my neighborhood, particularly not the charm and exquisite beauty and character of my city. I mean, how much character do you really see in big box stores and tree-less McMansions?
Anyone who doesn't get more than 10 minutes away from their front door is really living a very narrow lifestyle. I don't care how much there is within that 10 minutes. I don't care what well-educated, well-traveled people there are.

A 10 minute walk is about a mile. You're telling me that within a one mile radius of your home there is all the above? I don't believe it.
 
Old 05-03-2013, 07:14 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,011 posts, read 102,621,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I remember when I visited friends who lived in Brooklyn, I was always surprised they didn't want to go to Manhattan for dinner or something because "it's like 45 minutes on the subway." For the most part, the didn't leave their neighborhood.

But this is how density works in the end. If all your needs are dealt with within your neighborhood, you will seldom leave it unless you have reason to do so. If your city has hundreds of interchangeable bars, coffeeshops, or Thai restaurants, and you like the ones closest to you just fine, why bother roaming?
Are you saying, why bother widening your horizons? Maybe you should see what else is in your city. Maybe you should see how the "other half" lives. Maybe you'd learn something.
 
Old 05-03-2013, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 407,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katykat01 View Post
I know that my world is much richer than many of my suburban counterparts, simply because I have greater access to a wider variety of amenities, cultural events, and a more diverse group of individuals
Sorry, but this is complete nonsense. You can get to the same amenities, cultural events and "more diverse group of individuals" (whatever the hell that means) from the suburbs with no problems. Maybe you abhor driving a car so much, but from the looks of things that I see every day, there's a ton of people who don't and they have plenty of access to all of these things too. Maybe they're not "a ten minute walk", but who said that has to be their priority? I could give two s&@#'s if there's some hip gastropub or not at the end of my SFH block...some people trade that closeness of being "where it's at" to somewhere a little further away from the action because they have different preferences, values and desires out of their home community...this doesn't make it any less of a community and doesn't make it any less anything because of this, something a lot of the urbanista crowd just doesn't get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katykat01 View Post
...art house movie theaters, restaurants that span the globe in cuisines, excellent shopping, live theater, live music, world-renowned health care, yoga, pilates, used book stores, great coffee/tea shops, fantastic hair salons, a bike trail, farmer's markets, Whole Foods,
Congrats, I can access all of that neat stuff by car/express bus/train or even ferry from my house within an hour, and I'm fine with that. I can also access everything I need essentials and shopping-wise from within a 5-20 minute drive of my house, with *gasp* no gridlock! and *gasp* no parking problems! lol. Heck, if I really felt like it, I can walk to the deli 10 minutes from my house if I really wanted to, but in that 10 minutes, my car can take me to about 15 other similar businesses providing me with much more freedom of choice and variety.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katykat01 View Post
and a generally well-educated, well-traveled group of individuals


Quote:
Originally Posted by katykat01 View Post
Even a ten-minute drive in the suburbs can't generally provide all that I can walk to in my neighborhood, particularly not the charm and exquisite beauty and character of my city. I mean, how much character do you really see in big box stores and tree-less McMansions?
Maybe not every suburb has all of the artsy-fartsy stuff you described above, but every single suburban place I've ever been was ten minutes or less by car (oh noes!!!) from some kind of actual useful amenity. And I don't believe for a second that "character, charm and exquisite beauty" is even objectifiable: it depends on a person's point of view. And I say that as someone who lives in NYC and very often appreciates the old and new urban architecture and infrastructure...but I also find the same awesomeness when I see a row of beautiful, well-kept suburban homes, or a well-designed shopping center....even really freakin awesome highway flyover interchanges!
 
Old 05-03-2013, 07:37 PM
 
788 posts, read 1,070,730 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Anyone who doesn't get more than 10 minutes away from their front door is really living a very narrow lifestyle. I don't care how much there is within that 10 minutes. I don't care what well-educated, well-traveled people there are.

A 10 minute walk is about a mile. You're telling me that within a one mile radius of your home there is all the above? I don't believe it.
Then perhaps you should come to my neighborhood. To be honest, most of what I mentioned is a few blocks from my home, so much less than a mile. I didn't include world-class art museums because they're not a 10 minute walk from my house. A ten minute bike ride, yes. Probably a 25-30 minute walk. Within a 5 minute or less walk of my home, I can get Indian, Thai, Greek, Italian, American, Latin, and Jamaican food. I can also get sushi, but I don't like sushi. I also didn't mention our local Ivy League university because that's a 30 minute walk from my house, but I could bike it in less than 10 minutes.

Seriously, though, there's much to be had in my neighborhood and my city in general. I grew up in suburbia and even a 20 minute drive in any direction will not get you the foods I listed above, nor will it provide the amenities I previously listed. That's not to bash the suburbs or rural life because they have their positives too, but urban areas cater to a more diverse population and need to have this variety in order to thrive.

I actually don't believe it's a good idea to condense your life into a 10 minute walk or 10 minute drive anywhere - life should always be about being open to all kinds of people and experiences. Believe it or not, I do actually leave my bubble regularly - my work is a 30+ minute walk away and I visit family and friends in the suburbs often. In my life experiences, I've found that city life (and I've lived in NYC, London, Siena, and Philadelphia, plus I've traveled to many, many more international and domestic cities) offers me more within a 10 minute walk than my suburban hometown and neighboring communities ever offered. Case in point: None of my friends who remained in my hometown have tried Indian food; they don't have friends from Dubai, London, Paris, Humboldt County, Orange County, Ohio, Seattle, China, Russia, India, Japan, Portugal, Brazil, etc. I do. And what I've learned from those friends has been invaluable in the experiences they've given me and how they've shaped my world view. To me, that's priceless.

As for the poster who said that friends from Brooklyn don't want to travel into Manhattan, I found that many Brooklynites who work in Manhattan prefer not to travel into the city on weekends, regardless of how close they live, because they want to enjoy their own borough - and there's much to enjoy in Brooklyn. Others just detest what they perceive Manhattan to signify and avoid it on principle. That's lame and goes back to the idea of not wanting to leave your bubble.
 
Old 05-03-2013, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,426 posts, read 11,933,106 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Are you saying, why bother widening your horizons? Maybe you should see what else is in your city. Maybe you should see how the "other half" lives. Maybe you'd learn something.
I think New York is a very extreme example of insularity, because it's so friggin huge that some neighborhoods are the size of medium-sized cities elsewhere.

That said, I don't think it's true that people who live in cities are unusually narrow in their interests. They have the normal range of interests, it's just that they can have them all met within a much smaller geographic area than most people in the suburbs can. I know from Pittsburgh people from the suburbs to the north (North Hills) seldom go to the suburbs in the south (South Hills) and vice versa, but they travel around plenty in the 5th of the county or so which is their home base. Some people will of course be more adventurous - either in the city or in the suburbs. But I think this is really a question independent of which one is better, if we'd even want to to debate that (hint - I don't).
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