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Old 05-07-2013, 02:05 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semiurbanite View Post

My point is that SES drives student achievement, not the school itself. I don't consider a "low ranking" school to be crappy if the top 30% of student are from involved, highly educated parents (mostly Masters and PhD), but the lower 30% are Brazilian speaking and therefore scoring poorly, yet still come from strong families and do not disrupt the classroom.
Ah... Cambridge/Somerville and environs:

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Old 05-07-2013, 08:46 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by semiurbanite View Post
I never said crappy schools, I said schools with lower scores but usually higher diversity. If you call that crappy, those are your words not mine.

My point is that SES drives student achievement, not the school itself. I don't consider a "low ranking" school to be crappy if the top 30% of student are from involved, highly educated parents (mostly Masters and PhD), but the lower 30% are Brazilian speaking and therefore scoring poorly, yet still come from strong families and do not disrupt the classroom.

See all of my links to studies showing that private school students do outperform public school student, UNTIL you control for SES. Once you control for SES, there is no difference in achievement. In one study the public school kids outperformed in math after adjusting for SES.
I haven't read all your links, but some of them are obviously biased, e.g. that one that said that most private schools are independent, when in fact, a simple Google search will tell you that most are religious. (Link posted upthread)

This is the first time you have described the type of school you would consider acceptable. Where did you get your numbers? Where would you find a school like that?
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I suspect not too many investment bankers would choose to raise their kids in Park Slope, still too granola-y culture-wish; it almost gave Obama a vote of about 90%, too high for a neighborhood with investment bankers. Well for Park Slope, the friend I had that grew up in there (I'm told it was a popular high school for Park Slope residents) was this one:

Edward R. Murrow High School - insideschools.org

Few if any Long Island schools are that racially diverse, and its free lunch % is on the high side for Long Island. If the parents end up sending their kids to magnet schools, the income diversity is again at least as high. Racial diversity less, because most are majority Asian. My point is on average a rich parent in the suburbs is likely to find less income diversity [The Long Island forum regulars will point you towards that have less if you're looking for housing and have kids if you can afford it] vs the city at least for Long Island vs New York City.
Few if any NYC schools are either. NYC does have the third-most segregated schools, after all.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...education&_r=0


John Adams High School - insideschools.org
I guess whitey ran for the suburbs/private schools that aren't under-performing?
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:02 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Few if any NYC schools are either. NYC does have the third-most segregated schools, after all.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...education&_r=0
Of course, the most segregated minority areas are often the ones I'm less familiar with, so I have a bit of a bias.

Quote:
John Adams High School - insideschools.org
I guess whitey ran for the suburbs/private schools that aren't under-performing?
Somewhat. But NYC students can choose to go to whatever high school they wish, assuming their test scores are high enough, so whitey could have chosen another public school. It appears metal detectors might be a good indicator of whether a NYC high school is decent.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:12 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
John Adams High School - insideschools.org
I guess whitey ran for the suburbs/private schools that aren't under-performing?
My grandfather's alma mater. Like most white GIs, he bought a new house 30 miles away in the 50s for no money down. Black GIs were prohibited from doing the same.

At first it wasn't flight, it was a good deal ... but a neighborhood losing population preciptiously isn't going to remain a nice place for long. It was redlined, too, labeled as high risk for lenders due to the color of its inhabitants.

So "whitey running for schools" is really only a fraction of the whole story.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:41 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
My grandfather's alma mater. Like most white GIs, he bought a new house 30 miles away in the 50s for no money down. Black GIs were prohibited from doing the same.

At first it wasn't flight, it was a good deal ... but a neighborhood losing population preciptiously isn't going to remain a nice place for long. It was redlined, too, labeled as high risk for lenders due to the color of its inhabitants.

So "whitey running for schools" is really only a fraction of the whole story.
If you're referring to Ozone Park, where that high school is located, it remained majority white until sometime in the 90s. Heavily Italian-American at the time. The white population declined in that neighborhood by 25-40% in the last decade, and the whites that remain are probably older. The black population isn't that high today, it's more Asian and Hispanic, until you get east of about I-678 (which probably was a white flight area).

Ozone Park, Queens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:47 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
If you're referring to Ozone Park, where that high school is located, it remained majority white until sometime in the 90s. Heavily Italian-American at the time. The white population declined in that neighborhood by 25-40% in the last decade, and the whites that remain are probably older. The black population isn't that high today, it's more Asian and Hispanic, until you get east of about I-678 (which probably was a white flight area).

Ozone Park, Queens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I thought it was in Bed Stuy, because that's where my grandfather lived ... my mistake. I recall now that he moved to South Ozone Park as a teenager.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:51 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
I thought it was in Bed Stuy, because that's where my grandfather lived ... my mistake. I recall now that he moved to South Ozone Park as a teenager.
I didn't know Bed-Stuy had a white population that recently, I think I had a great-grandfather who lived there but it was about 100 years ago. From the article and your anecdote, it sounds like Ozone Park was a place that received whites fleeing from Brooklyn in the mid 20th century.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:59 AM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I didn't know Bed-Stuy had a white population that recently, I think I had a great-grandfather who lived there but it was about 100 years ago. From the article and your anecdote, it sounds like Ozone Park was a place that received whites fleeing from Brooklyn in the mid 20th century.
He was certainly in the minority in Bed Stuy. Reading about Ozone Park, it seems like you might be right. It mentions Italians especially, which he wasn't, so he was probably a minority there as well.

I think my great grandfather owned a store of some sort in Ozone Park, and that precipitated the move ... but I really can't remember.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:14 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Ozone Park used to have a large mafia presence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
He was certainly in the minority in Bed Stuy. Reading about Ozone Park, it seems like you might be right. It mentions Italians especially, which he wasn't, so he was probably a minority there as well.

I think my great grandfather owned a store of some sort in Ozone Park, and that precipitated the move ... but I really can't remember.
Here's an interesting history of Bed-Stuy:

BedStuy | Urbanology

While part of the change was nasty real estate practices, most whites at the time didn't want to live in a majority (or even close to) black neighborhood. It became rather poor and crime-ridden and not the best place to raise a family, so leaving was a logical choice.

The population of Bedford-Stuyvesant went from being 25% black in 1940 to 50% in 1950, 74% in 1960 (17), 82% in 1970 (18), and to about 85% since the 1980s. Behind this apparent racial homogeneity lies a variety of national origins and socio-cultural backgrounds, including, by the 1970s, Puerto Rican, middle class black-Americans, and West Indians.

Article mentioned the most successful demographic in Bed-Stuy, West Indians, tended to choose private schools.
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