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Old 05-04-2013, 08:53 PM
 
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I don't know if it's just my area, but grocery stores are closing as new open for new ones to close too ha ha. And in the end for a discount grocery store to replace it.

I also see this with this places like Lowe's which are closing stores and selling land for new stores because OSH and Home Depot are owning competition in CA.

I am also thinking large shopping centers were a bad idea. I think the idea was to build larger than the other nearby centers. The Promenade Shops at Orchard Valley is huge, but it is far from build out.

Shops at Lake Havasu are another example.

And Pacific Commons in Fremont are yet another example.

Why must bigger be better? The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

Also, it seems not even movie theaters are saving these mega malls.
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Old 05-04-2013, 09:02 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,958,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the city View Post
I don't know if it's just my area, but grocery stores are closing as new open for new ones to close too ha ha. And in the end for a discount grocery store to replace it.

I also see this with this places like Lowe's which are closing stores and selling land for new stores because OSH and Home Depot are owning competition in CA.
I think Home Depot was unique among big box retailers in owning their properties . . . it was almost their undoing when the real estate market collapsed. Most other retailers lease because mobility is part of the business strategy.

That's what happens when people stop shopping at mom & pops. Convenience kills.

but yeah, in general most suburban areas around the country have run in to a huge glut of retail space since the bubble burst although overbuilding is what probably helped the bubble in the first place.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:22 PM
 
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The mom-and-pops were hit as hard; still plenty of shuttered small-town downtowns. And throughout the whole thing, the mighty King of Prussia mall did fine (and expanded), as did new big-box areas (including a Wegmans) in Plymouth Meeting, PA, Collegeville, PA and Trappe, PA.

There's no need to do anything about saturation of the retail market. If it happens, places will go out of business, and the market won't be saturated any more.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:15 AM
 
Location: Southern California
15,087 posts, read 17,580,911 times
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Originally Posted by the city View Post
What to do about too much saturation of retail in the market?
Nothing.

[bad business decisions should be rewarded with failure]
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Canada
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The free market abhors wasted resources. Loosen up zoning and or taxes that might create barriers to the free market coming in and re-purposing the spaces or land. The biggest problem with suburbs is very strict zoning everywhere, if you let businesses do what they want with the space, someone will do something with them. Even if it's not retail, that's fine.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
The mom-and-pops were hit as hard; still plenty of shuttered small-town downtowns. And throughout the whole thing, the mighty King of Prussia mall did fine (and expanded), as did new big-box areas (including a Wegmans) in Plymouth Meeting, PA, Collegeville, PA and Trappe, PA.
Let me google that for you

downtowns fared better than suburban shopping through the recession.

If you build a new Wegmans and two other grocery stores close down - that's the opposite of growth my friend.

Quote:
There's no need to do anything about saturation of the retail market. If it happens, places will go out of business, and the market won't be saturated any more.
Clearly you don't understand the question. It's not about too many retailers. It's about not enough retailers for all of the retail space that was built. When you overbuild (especially in a stagnant economy) you drive rents down which drives down the value of the property.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,448 posts, read 11,951,877 times
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Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
Clearly you don't understand the question. It's not about too many retailers. It's about not enough retailers for all of the retail space that was built. When you overbuild (especially in a stagnant economy) you drive rents down which drives down the value of the property.
Yeah, municipalities need to rezone some commercial areas as residential. How much is subject to question.

Here in Pittsburgh even in areas where residential gentrification has taken off like crazy, there's still a notable number of vacant storefronts...virtually everywhere. In my own neighborhood (which is probably the hottest right now), there's a fair number of offices occupying first-floor storefronts, and one of the old Victorian storefronts was recently fixed up into a private residence.

That's not to say the commercial area isn't bumping - new stuff moves in all the time. But these days, for a walkable business district, it's tough to come up with a successful retail businesses besides a restaurant or bar. There's a smattering of service-style businesses (salons, banks), and a few really gentrified boutique businesses (handcrafted furniture, vintage pinball, locally made greeting cards, etc), but you can't fill up a business district on these elements alone.

I've been a fan for awhile of the idea of Pittsburgh's business districts going on a "diet." I think we can all agree that every neighborhood having a small business district is a good thing, even if it's only a block or two. So I don't think retiring the minor districts to try and consolidate business activity onto the main districts is a good idea. But the longest continuous commercial roads often have "dead zones" where few people walk. For example, the main commercial drag near my house is quite active, but a block up from me one side of the street there's no development due to a major cemetery. As a result, the next thee blocks on the opposite side, despite being zoned commercial, only have a few active businesses. Rezoning the area as residential would ensure that the commercial development gets focused to the north or south, improving the remainder of the commercial district.
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:59 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,857,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
Let me google that for you

downtowns fared better than suburban shopping through the recession.
Let me introduce you to the issue of confirmation bias. If you use the query [suburban retail overbuilt] you'll tend to find sites which assert that.

Quote:
If you build a new Wegmans and two other grocery stores close down - that's the opposite of growth my friend.
In fact what happened in the areas I mentioned is one Giant, one Wegmans, and one Acme was built, while another Acme closed down. That's net growth.

Quote:
Clearly you don't understand the question. It's not about too many retailers. It's about not enough retailers for all of the retail space that was built. When you overbuild (especially in a stagnant economy) you drive rents down which drives down the value of the property.
Thus lowering the costs of doing business for new entrants.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:52 PM
 
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I heard JCPenney is doing aweful and that Macy's is kicking them in the but.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Monmouth County, NJ & Staten Island, NY
407 posts, read 408,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the city View Post
I heard JCPenney is doing aweful and that Macy's is kicking them in the but.
I actually usually do my clothes shopping at JCP and I find that their recent corporate re-image and store redesign is kind of strange and frustrating. Though to be honest, most of my frustration is temporary since they've had half of my local store closed off for construction for quite some time. I have noticed that on average there seems to be a lot less people in there than I used to see...but then again I don't go shopping very often at all, lol.
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