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Old 05-09-2013, 03:32 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,128,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, yeah, every subsidized system has its less tangible benefits. I'd like the anti-surburban/anti-driving people to acknowledge my right to choose.

.
Who is ignoring your right to make a choice? I didn't see that anywhere.

The economist merely identified costs that you are not paying as a driver.

 
Old 05-09-2013, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,085 posts, read 102,844,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Who is ignoring your right to make a choice? I didn't see that anywhere.

The economist merely identified costs that you are not paying as a driver.
As if drivers are the only ones who get subsidized. I'm subsidizing a lot of stuff I never use, starting with mass transit in this city. Many city residents are living a practically 100% govt. subsidized lifestyle.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 03:55 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,140,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Many city residents are living a practically 100% govt. subsidized lifestyle.
Welfare Queens?
 
Old 05-09-2013, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,085 posts, read 102,844,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Welfare Queens?
No, I don't use that term and don't appreciate the snark behind that response. However, it does not take a rocket scientist to tell you that many city residents are living in subsidized housing, have a govt. subsidized income, get govt. subsidies for food, etc.

If you think I'm opposed to all this, I'm very disappointed in you. You obviously haven't been reading my posts in P&OC.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 04:07 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,128,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
No, I don't use that term and don't appreciate the snark behind that response. However, it does not take a rocket scientist to tell you that many city residents are living in subsidized housing, have a govt. subsidized income, get govt. subsidies for food, etc.

If you think I'm opposed to all this, I'm very disappointed in you. You obviously haven't been reading my posts in P&OC.
Plenty of that in the suburbs too.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 04:38 PM
 
2,553 posts, read 2,011,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
As if drivers are the only ones who get subsidized. I'm subsidizing a lot of stuff I never use, starting with mass transit in this city. Many city residents are living a practically 100% govt. subsidized lifestyle.
My example was merely that, an example, and not meant to be a dig at any group, individual or system. Costs should be internalized for cars, bikes, trucks, freight or heavy or light passenger rail, buses, gondolas or what have you.

Now, personally speaking, I think good (not all, but the good ones) public transit generally needs to be subsidized to be built and operated in this era if only because private vehicles are already so heavily subsidized and cities have focused so heavily on their ease of ownership and use (plentiful parking, wide and fast thoroughfares). It's not an anti-car rant to note that cars have taken precedence in America (speaking broadly, not of specific cities or neighborhoods).
 
Old 05-09-2013, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,085 posts, read 102,844,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsUpThumbsDown View Post
Plenty of that in the suburbs too.
There is suburban poverty. Heck, there is public housing right down the street from me; also a trailer park, though for the most part I think the trailers are owner occupied. I have neighbors who have been out of work for years, since the recession started. However, from my readings, it seems that severe poverty is worse in the city, and the more poverty, the more subsidies.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,085 posts, read 102,844,640 times
Reputation: 33152
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkeconomist View Post
My example was merely that, an example, and not meant to be a dig at any group, individual or system. Costs should be internalized for cars, bikes, trucks, freight or heavy or light passenger rail, buses, gondolas or what have you.

Now, personally speaking, I think good (not all, but the good ones) public transit generally needs to be subsidized to be built and operated in this era if only because private vehicles are already so heavily subsidized and cities have focused so heavily on their ease of ownership and use (plentiful parking, wide and fast thoroughfares). It's not an anti-car rant to note that cars have taken precedence in America (speaking broadly, not of specific cities or neighborhoods).
How are cars "heavily subsidized"? You can't even deduct the interest you pay on a car loan on your taxes any more, unless you add the loan to your mortgage.
 
Old 05-09-2013, 05:18 PM
 
56,928 posts, read 81,284,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
The "traditional" way they're trying to add density to suburbs now is to create pseudo new urbanist areas on the sites of former shopping malls. Shopping malls are ideal, because they have huge acreage, most of which is only taken up by parking now. Better yet, many are failing, need to be redeveloped, and they are found all across suburbia. The new construction is usually a much smaller "lifestyle center," coupled with townhouses and rental apartments within walking distance. Thus it can, if done right, create a small walkable pseudo-urban environment.
Here's an example of that being built in the Western suburbs of Syracuse: Township 5, Syracuse, NY | Cameron Group LLC
 
Old 05-09-2013, 06:34 PM
 
Location: North Baltimore ----> Seattle
6,473 posts, read 11,128,007 times
Reputation: 3118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
How are cars "heavily subsidized"? You can't even deduct the interest you pay on a car loan on your taxes any more, unless you add the loan to your mortgage.
All of the things that dark economist said answered this question. And, fuel is subsidized.
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