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You mentioned this before, I never understood why hauling babes in a stroller would be harder than a car seat. Maybe for cold weather? If urbanlife78 lives in NYC, snowstorms aren't that frequent and don't last long, and sidewalks are cleared quickly. A friend of mine family had no car growing up till age 8, maybe I should ask what this "carfree lifestyle" involved.
I presume they are talking about wherever they've experience. North America is big, not everyone has traveled in different parts of the continent. As I've said before, I could say far more about London suburbs than Denver ones. Should I include those instead?
All suburbs, where? Someone in the Northeast who hasn't traveled wouldn't think of western ones. Or Canadian ones? Everywhere in North America? Why just North America? It's implied, but nowhere does this say this forum is just for North America.
Another one who hasn't carted babies around. For one, you're exposed to the elements. For another, where do people clear their sidewalks completely and quickly? Here, you have 24 hours AFTER THE LAST FLAKE HAS FALLEN to clear your walk, and many people only clear a shovel-wide path. One of those links I posted about Denver fences addressed people who go skiing, or whatever, and it snows while they're gone.
I stand by what I said about saying "suburbs", and I think any English teacher worth their salt would agree. If you're going to qualify, you qualify. There've been zillions of posts here on CD where someone will post something as absolute fact, only for another poster to say, "not where I'm from". That happens on forums other than Urban Planning as well.
Your argument is a good one against the use of blanket statements. There are plenty of people who have little experience with the world outside their own little area.
Don't know what Pittsburgh has to do with Virginia Beach, but I grew up in Beaver Falls.
You said where you grew up, so I also said where I grew up, sorry, I thought I made that clear enough. Now did you live in Beaver Falls or near Beaver Falls because I would call Beaver Falls a small town outside of Pittsburgh, not your typical suburban area that you would find outside of most metros. Actually looking at the town of Beaver Falls, that falls more in line with what I am suggesting that suburban neighborhoods be built like.
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You're missing the point about the snowstorm. The baby may get sick during a snowstorm, while you're in the house, or a rainstorm, or on a hot, hot day, or the middle of the night, or whenever. They do get sick at inconvenient times.
Glad to know your wife has some experience with kids. I still think you personally have a lot to learn.
Actually, I would say you are missing the point because you clearly missed the point that I am not anti-car, I am actually fine with people owning a car and will own a car when I have a kid, but I won't be the one with the kid 100% of the time, therefore I would be happy to live in a streetcar suburb that provided plenty of things in walking and biking distance. Also, if I get creative, they make these things you can put a baby in and tow them in a bike if you really wanted to, it is a common thing to see with people who bike in Portland.
Actually we all have lots to learn in life, you seem to have a lot to learn about the fact that life isn't one size fits all, what works for you and your family might not work for me and my family, which is why I am for cities that provide commute options both suburban and urban.
Indeed, that was a generalization. Sure, if you live in Morgan Hill, CA and work at Stanford, PT (Caltrain + dozens of shuttles about the sprawling campus) is great. But, that's the exception, not the rule.
Live in the south bay south of 280 (south, west San Jose, Campbell, Cupertino, etc.), where most of the area's housing is found, yet work north of 101, where most of the work is found? Transit options exist, but they are, usually, except for a select group whose work provides buses or who lives and works along one transit corridor, at a strong disadvantage to the car in terms of both time, convenience and total ease of use.
So, yes, some areas do have exceptionally good transit which is competitive with the private vehicle, but this is not the rule in the US.
It use to be the rule and should be the rule in the US.
Another one who hasn't carted babies around. For one, you're exposed to the elements. For another, where do people clear their sidewalks completely and quickly? Here, you have 24 hours AFTER THE LAST FLAKE HAS FALLEN to clear your walk, and many people only clear a shovel-wide path. One of those links I posted about Denver fences addressed people who go skiing, or whatever, and it snows while they're gone.
I mentioned NYC previously (since that's where urbanlife78 lives), snow never seems last long. It's there after a snowstorm, but once it's over, it's over (snowstorm don't happen that often). NYC rules are 4 hours after the last flake has fallen:
Another one who hasn't carted babies around. For one, you're exposed to the elements. For another, where do people clear their sidewalks completely and quickly? Here, you have 24 hours AFTER THE LAST FLAKE HAS FALLEN to clear your walk, and many people only clear a shovel-wide path. One of those links I posted about Denver fences addressed people who go skiing, or whatever, and it snows while they're gone.
I stand by what I said about saying "suburbs", and I think any English teacher worth their salt would agree. If you're going to qualify, you qualify. There've been zillions of posts here on CD where someone will post something as absolute fact, only for another poster to say, "not where I'm from". That happens on forums other than Urban Planning as well.
Your argument is a good one against the use of blanket statements. There are plenty of people who have little experience with the world outside their own little area.
Well my statements are in reference to the Southeast part of the country, I lived in Virginia Beach, and have been throughout many of the cities in the Southeast. I have some experience with the Northeast, as well as much of the West Coast, and have been through a handful of midwest cities.
Also, in the sense of midwest cities, Denver is more of an exception if you live in Denver, outside of Denver it depends on which part of the metro you are in. I do know a little bit about that area too cause I have actually spent some time there as well. Not a lot of time, but a little bit.
You said where you grew up, so I also said where I grew up, sorry, I thought I made that clear enough. Now did you live in Beaver Falls or near Beaver Falls because I would call Beaver Falls a small town outside of Pittsburgh, not your typical suburban area that you would find outside of most metros. Actually looking at the town of Beaver Falls, that falls more in line with what I am suggesting that suburban neighborhoods be built like.
Actually, I would say you are missing the point because you clearly missed the point that I am not anti-car, I am actually fine with people owning a car and will own a car when I have a kid, but I won't be the one with the kid 100% of the time, therefore I would be happy to live in a streetcar suburb that provided plenty of things in walking and biking distance. Also, if I get creative, they make these things you can put a baby in and tow them in a bike if you really wanted to, it is a common thing to see with people who bike in Portland.
Actually we all have lots to learn in life, you seem to have a lot to learn about the fact that life isn't one size fits all, what works for you and your family might not work for me and my family, which is why I am for cities that provide commute options both suburban and urban.
I didn't get your post about VA Beach at first. I should apologize.
However, I did live right in Beaver Falls for the first few years of my life, near a steel mill, remember? Then my parents bought a house just outside of BF, in Patterson Hts. PH is what you might call a streetcar suburb except it was served by a bus line, rather than a streetcar line.
I guess it all depends on what your defintion of a suburb is. BF is ~ 25 miles from Pittsburgh. It's part of a continuous line of towns along the Beaver, then Ohio River into Pittsburgh. People relate to Pittsburgh there. Even back in the 1930s, my father took the train from BF to Carnegie-Mellon U (then Carnegie Tech) to go to night school. We went to lots of Pirates/Steelers games. So by those criteria, it's a suburb. When I was a kid, it had a thriving downtown. My family rarely shopped for clothes and most household stuff anywhere else. However, I knew people who did like to go to Pittsburgh to go shopping, especially say, for back to school shopping or special occasion shopping.
I've been a public health nurse. I've seen all sorts of lifestyles. I know people living all sorts of lifestyles, including people in my own family. I have extended family who are unwed mothers, who are living on welfare, etc. I will say though, that having a baby, and then another one, changed my outlook about a lot of things.
Whatever opinion you may hold regarding the nature of transportation and urban design, certain facts will eventually dominate:
[] Population growth will continue,
[] Resources will not keep pace, which will
[] Force a cutback in consumption and a
[] Consolidation of population.
...
How people deal with these facts is grist for endless arguments.
The “Smart money†would hopefully seek long term solutions that provide equal or better living conditions for less resources.
Mixed use, high population density urban development is one viable solution. Not necessarily the high rise paradigm of towering needles poking the sky, but something else that is more pleasant.
Though the USA has been redesigned to accommodate the automobile, I do not see how automobiles can be sustained. They’re a budget breaker and resource hog. At this time, the most efficient form of land transport is steel wheel on steel rail. Unless vacuum tube mag-lev or some other mag-lev system becomes cost effective and feasible, electric traction rail will come to dominate land transport. Which means that eventually, we will see a wide mix of urban, interurban, and intercity rail transport to take up the slack as automobile usage drops.
In summation, I foresee rail friendly compact villages and cities, as well as megacities served by a multimode mass transit in the coming decades.
I enjoy having narrow streets. For one, it slows down car traffic.
Whoa, not me. Especially not careening downhill with a truck coming up the hill right at you. Or vice versa.
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Originally Posted by nei
I mentioned NYC previously (since that's where urbanlife78 lives), snow never seems last long. It's there after a snowstorm, but once it's over, it's over (snowstorm don't happen that often). NYC rules are 4 hours after the last flake has fallen:
Bigger streets have public sidewalks, where the city clears.
Every city has rules about snow removal, but they're rarely followed or enforced. Walking through downtown Cincinnati, for instance, for days after a snowfall and a cold snap is a treacherous undertaking indeed.
Whoa, not me. Especially not careening downhill with a truck coming up the hill right at you. Or vice versa.
Eh. The street I live on is narrow enough no truck would want go on it unless it had to. It feels cozier to me as well.
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Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81
Every city has rules about snow removal, but they're rarely followed or enforced. Walking through downtown Cincinnati, for instance, for days after a snowfall and a cold snap is a treacherous undertaking indeed.
Hmm. Haven't been in NYC after a snowstorm, but at least for non-monster sized storms, snow seems to disappear rather quickly. Snow in the burbs, in Manhattan, where'd it go?! After huge snowstorms, the sidewalks maybe nasty, but the roads are just as bad.
Here, after the biggest snowstorms, the plow truck has to go multiple times. I'd rather wait a few days and not drive and walk everywhere if I can help it.
Here's what I don't get --- people making these blanket statements that suburbs are unwalkable. But what is the typical development pattern? Commercial nodes with subdivisions around them. If the city is big enough there will be transit on the main road.
From my experience about 5% of the houses are convenient to these commercial nodes. So the families who want to be car-lite simply pick houses located close to those nodes. As long as less than 5% desire that lifestyle it will balance out.
You might have the same amentities as new urbanist developments, just not as quaint or cutesy. But for a lot less $$$$$.
Last edited by creeksitter; 09-13-2013 at 07:04 PM..
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