U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-24-2013, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Mountain Home, ID
1,955 posts, read 2,879,825 times
Reputation: 2403

Advertisements

I've been watching "dead mall" videos (which cover both traditional and strip malls) on YouTube, and it really is shocking to see all the empty retail space in some communities. People film a walk or drive through the parking lot and the vacancy rate on some of these places is over 80%. The desolation drives people away, and even more businesses move or go under.

I'd understand if the neighborhood and buildings looked dumpy or run down, but in most of them the buildings don't even look that old. Some are brand new construction that never got filled before the economy tanked. Will these empty spaces ever get filled?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-24-2013, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
5,560 posts, read 5,362,081 times
Reputation: 3017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesster View Post
I've been watching "dead mall" videos (which cover both traditional and strip malls) on YouTube, and it really is shocking to see all the empty retail space in some communities. People film a walk or drive through the parking lot and the vacancy rate on some of these places is over 80%. The desolation drives people away, and even more businesses move or go under.

I'd understand if the neighborhood and buildings looked dumpy or run down, but in most of them the buildings don't even look that old. Some are brand new construction that never got filled before the economy tanked. Will these empty spaces ever get filled?
No. Those spaces never get completely filled. Some vacancies are temporarily filled, but American cities will never experience 100% occupancy rates until our economy returns to low unemployment, among other things.

The conditions of neighborhoods have nothing to do with it. Good neighborhoods have lower occupancy rates in their malls than poor neighborhoods. No one builds large scale projects in poor neighborhoods anyway outside of residential housing projects like Section 8 or traditional PJs. Bottom line is that retail peaked back in the 90s and there is not enough demand to fill supply.

The malls you speak of are in poor suburbs or lower class working poor areas. In a lot of cases, those left in those areas do not have the discretionary income anymore. Truly middle class suburbs are doing okay.

Last edited by goofy328; 10-24-2013 at 09:48 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2013, 10:15 AM
 
9,316 posts, read 13,844,848 times
Reputation: 9354
There's not much point in worrying about dead malls as a general thing. There's different reasons for them and different results. Some will recover, probably most will be demolished eventually. I don't think they bring down the area in general -- more likely the area gets hurt by the same thing which killed the mall. For instance, the Frederick, MD "Golden Mile" is generally doing OK, despite the corpse of the Frederick Town Mall which has been dead for a number of years (it's being demolished soon for a WalMart, might have been already). The Coventry mall near Pottstown,PA was near-dead, then got revived along with the whole area, but now it's dead again -- partly due to the downturn, but partly due to an outlet mall built nearby which sucked up a lot of its business.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2013, 10:33 AM
 
8,325 posts, read 14,060,906 times
Reputation: 4018
100% occupancy is not a desirable thing on a citywide basis--it means there is no new growth going on, and that rent prices go up due to a constriction of supply. Cities always have areas of ascendance and areas of decline--one part of town is going up while the other area is going down. So the "good" mall on the busy side of town may be 100% occupied, but the "bad" one on the other end could be 50% vacant--but that is the place with lower prices, so people who can't afford the fancy mall will shop there to get what they need.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2013, 10:43 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
45,740 posts, read 39,621,992 times
Reputation: 14671
I always wondered what people were talking about referring to "deal malls" and abandonded retail. Might be because Long Island has among the lowest retail vacancy rate (NYC proper is about the same):

Top 10 U.S. Retail Markets by Vacancy Rate |
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2013, 10:59 AM
 
8,325 posts, read 14,060,906 times
Reputation: 4018
There are dead malls all over the place. I saw this one while driving through rural Wisconsin last week:

Retiring Guy: Among the Deadest of Dead Malls: Lakeview Centre, Manitowoc, Wisconsin
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2013, 01:26 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,107 posts, read 39,170,046 times
Reputation: 40515
Default What will happen?

Some will be redeveloped, some will be demolished, some will just sit there and fall apart.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2013, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
5,560 posts, read 5,362,081 times
Reputation: 3017
Yeah it really isn't a science project. But I have found that some dead malls at less than 10% occupancy rate are never demolished.

These malls are occupied by everything from churches to community colleges, but even then are at best back to 50%

Two of our malls in Hampton Roads, Military Circle and Chesapeake Square, stay at or near 50%. There is simply too much retail in America.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2013, 05:15 PM
 
80 posts, read 119,442 times
Reputation: 128
Tim and Eric, the Adult Swim comedians, made a movie around the premise of saving a dead mall. Will Ferrell plays the manager of the mall who hires them as consultants to try and revive it. The humor is seriously debased and not for the easily-offended, but if you can appreciate, it's quite funny.

Tim and Eric's Billion Dollar Movie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-26-2013, 05:28 PM
 
2,484 posts, read 1,726,689 times
Reputation: 4240
I travel across the country twice a year, and, let me tell ya: they're everywhere! In my opinion they are proof that this is a depression with lipstick, not a recession.

What I wonder is why haven't the financiers clamped down on these failed businesses and why aren't these buildings going up on the auction block? Who is footing the bill here?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top