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Old 12-22-2013, 07:54 PM
 
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But, of course all suburbs are identical.

The oil refinery suburb of Bayonne NJ is identical to the Great Gatsby north shore of Long Island.

The Hispanic projects of Baileys Crossroads VA and ghetto suburb Suitland (a.k.a. "Shootland") MD are identical to the celebrity estate homes in Potomac MD and Great Falls VA.

The projects in the suburbs of Charlestown and Lynn, MA are identical to exclusive Weston and Wayland, MA.

The Arab projects in Paris's suburb of Saint Denis, are identical to Paris's wealthy exclusive suburb Saint Cloud.

The largely-Arab suburb Dearborn MI, is identical to the corporate mansions in Grosse Point, MI.
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:32 PM
 
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It really depends on context and what you are talking about.

Generally - there is a lot of similarity in FORM amongst the post war auto dependent suburbs which tend to:

1. Have strict separation of uses keeping residential apart from commercial, apart from civic, etc.
2. Eschewed urban grids for dendritic road systems (cul de sac to feeder, feeder to collector, collector to artery. . .) - there are few options to get from point A to B.
3. Have housing types from only a relatively short era of time - this is axiomatic.
4. Tend to not only have strict separation of uses, but also strict separation of sizes and styles in an effort to have strict separation of income levels.
5. Favor wide roads with gradual curb cuts.
6. Supply ample parking surface for all commercial buildings (almost always) between the street and the front entrances.

Once you design a community that is based on the automobile as the basic mode of transportation then a whole bunch of things have to follow that necessarily makes all such communities look similar. The street itself, the signage, the buildings, everything changes when you experience the world at 45MPH instead of at 5MPH.

In this regard - most post-war suburbs (not all - some notable exceptions) do indeed look similar. Suburbs in Atlanta are nearly indistinguishable from those in Houston or Orlando except for minor deviations in housing style (and sometimes not even this).
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:49 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,830,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
It really depends on context and what you are talking about.

Generally - there is a lot of similarity in FORM amongst the post war auto dependent suburbs which tend to:
If you very carefully restrict your domain and have a wide definition of similarity, anyway. But there's a clear difference between a Levittown and, say, Columbia, MD.
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:55 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,002 posts, read 102,592,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
It really depends on context and what you are talking about.

Generally - there is a lot of similarity in FORM amongst the post war auto dependent suburbs which tend to:

1. Have strict separation of uses keeping residential apart from commercial, apart from civic, etc.
2. Eschewed urban grids for dendritic road systems (cul de sac to feeder, feeder to collector, collector to artery. . .) - there are few options to get from point A to B.
3. Have housing types from only a relatively short era of time - this is axiomatic.
4. Tend to not only have strict separation of uses, but also strict separation of sizes and styles in an effort to have strict separation of income levels.
5. Favor wide roads with gradual curb cuts.
6. Supply ample parking surface for all commercial buildings (almost always) between the street and the front entrances.

Once you design a community that is based on the automobile as the basic mode of transportation then a whole bunch of things have to follow that necessarily makes all such communities look similar. The street itself, the signage, the buildings, everything changes when you experience the world at 45MPH instead of at 5MPH.

In this regard - most post-war suburbs (not all - some notable exceptions) do indeed look similar. Suburbs in Atlanta are nearly indistinguishable from those in Houston or Orlando except for minor deviations in housing style (and sometimes not even this).
As Paul Ryan would say, "Malarkey"!

1. Rubbish. Define "strict". As Martin Luther (the first one) would say, "What does this mean?"
2. Ditto. Also, there are many people on this forum who don't like grids in the city.
3. There have been suburbs for at least 125 years or more. Housing styles from all eras since the suburb was established are usually represented.
4. No more than in a city.
5. I've been in many burbs with narrow roads. I don't know what you mean about "gradual curb cuts".
6. Rubbish again.

Most residential and commercial streets in my burb have 25 mph speed limits. Some of the feeder streets have a 30 mph limit. Only a few roads have a higher limit.
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:12 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,830,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
As Paul Ryan would say, "Malarkey"!

1. Rubbish. Define "strict". As Martin Luther (the first one) would say, "What does this mean?"
Absolutely strict. Like you'd never have a residential street with a bunch of apartments across from an office building on a road feeding right into that strip mall I posted earlier. (oh, wait).

Quote:
2. Ditto. Also, there are many people on this forum who don't like grids in the city.
Indeed, and a look at the suburb I posted earlier reveals more gridding than cul-de-sac.

Quote:
3. There have been suburbs for at least 125 years or more. Housing styles from all eras since the suburb was established are usually represented.
I've already posted Edison's mansion and some 1950-60s tract homes. I suppose I could add the just-built McMansions, and various different types of houses built mostly in the 1920s, along with a few from other eras.

Quote:
4. No more than in a city.
The suburb I posted earlier is largely built on a hill. One thing you'll notice (with exceptions) is the houses get bigger as you go up the hill, but it's hardly "strict separation", more like banding.

But Kohmet is restricting his domain to greenfield post-WWII suburbs, which is kind of rigging the game.
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:28 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,932,349 times
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No; not by any means. Some sub burbs started after WWII in outlaying areas because people wanted family areas where their kids unlike them did not play in streets and such.Most where towns that already existed but expanded. The 60's brought a generation who wanted a more rural;relaxed life style but often had to compromise for work.Now we see them retiring and looking for that relaxed;peaceful smaller town feel. .Many also want a less competitive area which is cheaper to live their life out. Look at retirement forum and read the hunt going on and to last a long while yet since they are just starting. Boomers retiring at 8K a day;said to be expanding to max of 10k a day over the next 19 years. That is 240K to 300K a month; a huge movement. even if only half do it actually. But boomers are the first generation in numbers use to moving several times in a career.Should be interesting to see results just starting to have a impact.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:01 PM
 
9,382 posts, read 9,541,753 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
It really depends on context and what you are talking about.

Generally - there is a lot of similarity in FORM amongst the post war auto dependent suburbs which tend to:

1. Have strict separation of uses keeping residential apart from commercial, apart from civic, etc.
2. Eschewed urban grids for dendritic road systems (cul de sac to feeder, feeder to collector, collector to artery. . .) - there are few options to get from point A to B.
3. Have housing types from only a relatively short era of time - this is axiomatic.
4. Tend to not only have strict separation of uses, but also strict separation of sizes and styles in an effort to have strict separation of income levels.
5. Favor wide roads with gradual curb cuts.
6. Supply ample parking surface for all commercial buildings (almost always) between the street and the front entrances.

Once you design a community that is based on the automobile as the basic mode of transportation then a whole bunch of things have to follow that necessarily makes all such communities look similar. The street itself, the signage, the buildings, everything changes when you experience the world at 45MPH instead of at 5MPH.

In this regard - most post-war suburbs (not all - some notable exceptions) do indeed look similar. Suburbs in Atlanta are nearly indistinguishable from those in Houston or Orlando except for minor deviations in housing style (and sometimes not even this).

look at all that parking (Andover MA)
or here

(West Hartford, CT)

(Clayton, MO)

Ya, all suburbs are subdivisions and stripmalls.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:26 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
look at all that parking (Andover MA)
or here

(West Hartford, CT)

(Clayton, MO)

Ya, all suburbs are subdivisions and stripmalls.
None of your images are postwar suburbs.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:27 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
Reputation: 14805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post

In this regard - most post-war suburbs (not all - some notable exceptions) do indeed look similar. Suburbs in Atlanta are nearly indistinguishable from those in Houston or Orlando except for minor deviations in housing style (and sometimes not even this).
Except all three locations are in the south, so that's not that surprising. Go out to California, the Northeast and perhaps the Midwest and you'll notice regional differences.
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Old 12-23-2013, 04:18 PM
 
3,836 posts, read 4,715,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
As Paul Ryan would say, "Malarkey"!

1. Rubbish. Define "strict". As Martin Luther (the first one) would say, "What does this mean?"
2. Ditto. Also, there are many people on this forum who don't like grids in the city.
3. There have been suburbs for at least 125 years or more. Housing styles from all eras since the suburb was established are usually represented.
4. No more than in a city.
5. I've been in many burbs with narrow roads. I don't know what you mean about "gradual curb cuts".
6. Rubbish again.

Most residential and commercial streets in my burb have 25 mph speed limits. Some of the feeder streets have a 30 mph limit. Only a few roads have a higher limit.
1. strict means strict - you want me to site to dictionary.com for you?
2. whether people like or don't like grids is besides the point. post war suburbs by and large don't have them. This impacts how they are perceived.
3. I was pretty clear I was talking about post-war auto-dependent suburbs.
4. Of course it is different. e.g. you don't have covenants in cities that dictate minimum SF - a tool very commonly used in suburbs to keep out the riffraff.
5. I don't do urbanism 101 - look it up.
6. Honestly, if you don't see this then you frankly aren't very observant.
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