U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-02-2014, 08:51 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,816,131 times
Reputation: 9769

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
In my experience, industrial suburbs don't usually get grouped with other suburbs.
But most industrial suburbs are of mixed character. Secaucus, NJ as brought up above, and neighboring Kearney as well; both still have industry. West Orange, NJ was a bedroom town for the rich before becoming Edison's factory town, and is now a bedroom town again. It's poorer neighbor Orange was "Hat City", but the hat industry is long gone; the same goes for the major industries of Norristown, PA and Conshohocken, PA (textile and steel). I imagine the Pittsburgh area is filled with formerly-industrial and now-residential suburbs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-03-2014, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
5,802 posts, read 5,460,455 times
Reputation: 3113
Of course not; in the suburbs surrounding LA, there are industrial suburbs such as the appropriately named City of Industry, as opposed to suburbs straight out of any TV show you can name from Leave It To Beaver to Modern Family.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2014, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,414 posts, read 11,913,851 times
Reputation: 10533
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
But most industrial suburbs are of mixed character. Secaucus, NJ as brought up above, and neighboring Kearney as well; both still have industry. West Orange, NJ was a bedroom town for the rich before becoming Edison's factory town, and is now a bedroom town again. It's poorer neighbor Orange was "Hat City", but the hat industry is long gone; the same goes for the major industries of Norristown, PA and Conshohocken, PA (textile and steel). I imagine the Pittsburgh area is filled with formerly-industrial and now-residential suburbs.
Judging by what I've learned about the "Industrial suburbs" since I moved to Pittsburgh, I think calling them suburbs is false in just about every way. Yes, many of them happened to be somewhat close to the city, but they were otherwise only tangentially linked, insofar as the owners of the mills lived in Pittsburgh itself. They were set up as mixed-use communities. The general layout was mills down by the river, then an area of very modest housing, followed by a commercial district and then another residential area which was a bit more desirable, particularly as it got into the hillsides. They were constructed as largely self-contained cities. The working class had no reason to commute to Pittsburgh itself, and the middle class either lived directly in town or commuted in. Thus while something like one of the early streetcar municipalities is undoubtedly a suburb, they are not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2014, 09:46 PM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,816,131 times
Reputation: 9769
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Judging by what I've learned about the "Industrial suburbs" since I moved to Pittsburgh, I think calling them suburbs is false in just about every way. Yes, many of them happened to be somewhat close to the city, but they were otherwise only tangentially linked, insofar as the owners of the mills lived in Pittsburgh itself.
The product moved via the river to Pittsburgh, didn't it? They weren't bedroom communities or commuter towns, I agree. But they were still economically linked to the larger city.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2014, 10:05 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,985 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Judging by what I've learned about the "Industrial suburbs" since I moved to Pittsburgh, I think calling them suburbs is false in just about every way. Yes, many of them happened to be somewhat close to the city, but they were otherwise only tangentially linked, insofar as the owners of the mills lived in Pittsburgh itself. They were set up as mixed-use communities. The general layout was mills down by the river, then an area of very modest housing, followed by a commercial district and then another residential area which was a bit more desirable, particularly as it got into the hillsides. They were constructed as largely self-contained cities. The working class had no reason to commute to Pittsburgh itself, and the middle class either lived directly in town or commuted in. Thus while something like one of the early streetcar municipalities is undoubtedly a suburb, they are not.
You gave a fairly accurate description of Beaver Falls, though I disagree with a few points. The mills weren't all along the river (the Beaver in this case). There was a mill on the main street, albeit in the "lower end" which was no longer a real business district. Armstrong Cork had two facilities in town, neither on the river. B&W had a huge installation nowhere near the river. It was the main employer. In fact, only Moltrup Steel, a small family owned steel company, was located on the river.

The class distinctions are annoying. There wasn't much difference in pay between the steelworkers, especially the more skilled workers, and the engineers.

Like many suburbanites today, most people did work in town, or nearby towns, rather than in Pittsburgh. But even in the 1930s, my father took the train to Carnegie Tech (now Carnegie-Mellon) several nights a week to go to classes. Many people went to Pittsburgh for sporting events, and some to shop. Beaver Falls was one of the few cities in the Beaver Valley to have a robust downtown shopping area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
The product moved via the river to Pittsburgh, didn't it? They weren't bedroom communities or commuter towns, I agree. But they were still economically linked to the larger city.
No, not usually. It was shipped out by train, mostly. A lot of steel made in the Pittsburgh area went to Detroit to build cars.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2014, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,414 posts, read 11,913,851 times
Reputation: 10533
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
The product moved via the river to Pittsburgh, didn't it? They weren't bedroom communities or commuter towns, I agree. But they were still economically linked to the larger city.
In some cases there was quite intimate connection between Pittsburgh and the mill towns. But then again, Pittsburgh also relied upon surrounding rural areas for food, and they certainly weren't suburbs.

But yeah, they were linked to the city. Still, that doesn't make them suburban, although it arguably makes them satellite cities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2014, 05:25 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,985 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
The product moved via the river to Pittsburgh, didn't it? They weren't bedroom communities or commuter towns, I agree. But they were still economically linked to the larger city.
Allow me to add: The Beaver River is not navigable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2014, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
2,610 posts, read 3,759,792 times
Reputation: 1616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I'm way too brain dead to argue this tonight. I'll be back, though.
I agree Beaver Falls has little in common with NYC but no American city is like NYC. I would think it's pretty similar to small cities like Elmira, Altoona or Cumberland.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-05-2014, 11:48 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,985 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by memph View Post
I agree Beaver Falls has little in common with NYC but no American city is like NYC. I would think it's pretty similar to small cities like Elmira, Altoona or Cumberland.
They are all much larger than BF.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2014, 02:15 PM
 
56,527 posts, read 80,824,285 times
Reputation: 12482
Quote:
Originally Posted by memph View Post
I agree Beaver Falls has little in common with NYC but no American city is like NYC. I would think it's pretty similar to small cities like Elmira, Altoona or Cumberland.
Those last 3 are not only bigger, but are the central cities of metro areas.

In NY, places like Solvay, Lackawanna, Cohoes, Endicott, Johnson City, NY Mills and perhaps the railroad communities(East Rochester, East Syracuse, Minoa, Sloan) are more line with the PA mill towns.

Endicott is probably the closet example that is similar to Beaver Falls. Both on a river a distance away from a bigger city with a blue collar character. Endicott is into its HS Football and even have the same colors(Black and Orange). IBM and the Endicott-Johnson Shoe Company were the biggest employers in Endicott. There is a strong Italian community there and it has its own Little Italy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top