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Old 12-26-2013, 01:18 PM
 
Location: New York City
4,036 posts, read 8,940,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
The micro apartments are supposely for people who cannot afford normal apartments, but it seems everyone talks about these things being located in pricey areas. So it is bascially about people wanting to afford to live in the nicer, pricier areas, not the fact of having more affordable housing.

If they are that poor, they are not going to be utilizing those things often at all. If they are that poor, they should stop looking to live in pricey, trendy areas, and move out to a place they can afford.
Some cities, like Boson and San Francisco, essentially have no affordable areas for single recent grads. It’s not about living in fancy neighborhood, but living in the city at all. Then there are the environmental costs of commuting into the city. The economic and environmentally advantages of this lifestyle and demographic are so enormous that it seems crazy not to make accommodations.
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Old 12-26-2013, 01:37 PM
 
781 posts, read 594,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
I just don't understand the mentality that is so hostile to urbanism that people don't even want the option for it to exist.
I don't understand hostility to those who don't want to live the way the 'urban fetishists' think they should live. I don't recognize 'should' in regard to these kind of lifestyle matters. 'Live and let live' like they used to say. You live by your values and I'll live by mine.
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Old 12-26-2013, 01:43 PM
 
15,545 posts, read 13,536,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
Some cities, like Boson and San Francisco, essentially have no affordable areas for single recent grads. It’s not about living in fancy neighborhood, but living in the city at all. Then there are the environmental costs of commuting into the city. The economic and environmentally advantages of this lifestyle and demographic are so enormous that it seems crazy not to make accommodations.
What is your definition of affordable?

Why not address the reason why housing prices are so high instead of shoving people into yet a smaller space? What happens once these micro apartments become "unaffordable"? What will be the next step?
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Old 12-26-2013, 02:08 PM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,636,200 times
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You guys should take a look at this when you all get the chance:

How Germany Achieved Stable and Affordable Housing | naked capitalism

It looks at some of hte structural reasons for why a country like Germany can maintain affordable housing in its cities which is a far cry from the policy driven commercialism which is running rampant through US cities.
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Old 12-26-2013, 03:10 PM
 
Location: New York City
4,036 posts, read 8,940,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
What is your definition of affordable?

Why not address the reason why housing prices are so high instead of shoving people into yet a smaller space? What happens once these micro apartments become "unaffordable"? What will be the next step?
Affordable is obviously related to median income. For example, in New York it’s very difficult to live alone (even in Queens or outer Brooklyn) for less than $1,500. Such apartments are more or less nonexistent in Manhattan without some sort of special deal. At the standard “40 times rent” rule, you need an income of $60,000 per year to live alone at all. This is why it’s not uncommon for people to have roommates well into their 40s and later.

Micro apartments are necessary in only a handful for U.S. cities: New York, Boston, San Francisco and DC. The vast majority of the country—even large cities—have space to accommodate larger populations. There is no way that someone in Minneapolis, Denver or Atlanta would want to live in these apartments because you can get a decent one bedroom in those cities for $800 or less. Thus people making closer to $30,000 can afford to live alone.
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Old 12-26-2013, 03:21 PM
 
15,545 posts, read 13,536,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
Affordable is obviously related to median income. For example, in New York it’s very difficult to live alone (even in Queens or outer Brooklyn) for less than $1,500. Such apartments are more or less nonexistent in Manhattan without some sort of special deal. At the standard “40 times rent” rule, you need an income of $60,000 per year to live alone at all. This is why it’s not uncommon for people to have roommates well into their 40s and later.

Micro apartments are necessary in only a handful for U.S. cities: New York, Boston, San Francisco and DC. The vast majority of the country—even large cities—have space to accommodate larger populations. There is no way that someone in Minneapolis, Denver or Atlanta would want to live in these apartments because you can get a decent one bedroom in those cities for $800 or less. Thus people making closer to $30,000 can afford to live alone.
I cannot comment on any city other than DC; in DC a person can find affordable housing. Sure, low cost is probably going to be near or in some ghetto area, but it still in the DC area, and reasonable to commute to work.

Problem in DC is, no on wants to live near or in the ghetto areas, and everyone actually wants to live in the few trendy areas, this is why an apartment in Clarendon (little trendy area of Arlington) goes for what it does.

This still does not answer the issue regarding house prices. All this is doing is maintianing the same price per square foot, but reducing the square footage; what happens when those prices become unafforable? Studios were already introduced as "affordable" in many areas, and these have now become out of reach for many people.

If the core of the problem, housing prices, is not addressed, these micro apartments are just going to become unaffordable like the studio and one bedrooms are now.
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Old 12-26-2013, 03:30 PM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,636,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
I cannot comment on any city other than DC; in DC a person can find affordable housing. Sure, low cost is probably going to be near or in some ghetto area, but it still in the DC area, and reasonable to commute to work.

Problem in DC is, no on wants to live near or in the ghetto areas, and everyone actually wants to live in the few trendy areas, this is why an apartment in Clarendon (little trendy area of Arlington) goes for what it does.

This still does not answer the issue regarding house prices. All this is doing is maintianing the same price per square foot, but reducing the square footage; what happens when those prices become unafforable? Studios were already introduced as "affordable" in many areas, and these have now become out of reach for many people.

If the core of the problem, housing prices, is not addressed, these micro apartments are just going to become unaffordable like the studio and one bedrooms are now.
I agree in regards to DC that the city has low cost housing in the NE/SE sections of the city, but on that same note, the city has the capacity to build more units. The problem is that there is a lot of resistance to doing that which is why rents are on comparable to what you'd find in the boroughs of NYC. San Francisco is also another similiar city with a similar story: NYC rents, not as dense as NYC, resistance to building.
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Old 12-26-2013, 03:35 PM
 
15,545 posts, read 13,536,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octa View Post
I agree in regards to DC that the city has low cost housing in the NE/SE sections of the city, but on that same note, the city has the capacity to build more units. The problem is that there is a lot of resistance to doing that which is why rents are on comparable to what you'd find in the boroughs of NYC. San Francisco is also another similiar city with a similar story: NYC rents, not as dense as NYC, resistance to building.
Or go to Virginia or Maryland and find an affordable place and commute into DC.

Are these micro apartments going to be built in a low cost area? Or are they going to be built in the trendy, high demand areas? And if built in low cost areas, how are is going to turn out attracting the numerous low life types that make the area low cost in the first place?
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Old 12-26-2013, 03:46 PM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,636,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Or go to Virginia or Maryland and find an affordable place and commute into DC.

Are these micro apartments going to be built in a low cost area? Or are they going to be built in the trendy, high demand areas? And if built in low cost areas, how are is going to turn out attracting the numerous low life types that make the area low cost in the first place?
Is that rhetorical? I'm not really in that support of micro apartments and I was agreeing with you about people only thinking of the trendy areas. When I talk about affordable housing, I mean standard size apartments that people not living in NYC would want to live in. Also housing/apartments that middle class families can live in.
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Old 12-26-2013, 04:49 PM
 
Location: White Sox Territory
404 posts, read 484,739 times
Reputation: 144
I live in a micro-apartment. Couldn't be happier!!
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