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Old 12-26-2013, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,169 posts, read 29,669,595 times
Reputation: 26661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
If you were rich, or at least not poor, would you still live in the same size studio?
I am not doing too badly (a very good wage for most regions and a pretty good wage for my own region) and I have no burning desire for much more space. My budget could accommodate 2x the rent I am paying and a larger space and I haven't bothered. I have storage in the garage and a full wall closet. A bed, a desk, smaller kitchen table, a couch, a reading nook and still enough floor space for yoga mats and other activities. I have spare stools and a trunk .... 500 square feet is actually quite a lot.

I would be fine with a similar amount of space with a slightly different layout in my current situation. If I was living with someone else, I'd want more space and a nook to carve out as a home office. To be honest I don't really care for tons of space. Honestly other than having a big closet and big bathroom, the rest of the living space is pretty negotiable for me. I have no desire for a single family home on a big lot, my dream home as always been a warehousey loft in a walkable area.

I have also seen apartments with 200-300 square feet on mine that did not feel spacious.
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Old 12-26-2013, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,169 posts, read 29,669,595 times
Reputation: 26661
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetailSymbolizes View Post
I don't understand hostility to those who don't want to live the way the 'urban fetishists' think they should live. I don't recognize 'should' in regard to these kind of lifestyle matters. 'Live and let live' like they used to say. You live by your values and I'll live by mine.
I don't understand why people who are "not urban fetishists" assume everyone desires the same lifestyle as theirs. We have developed and zoned choice out of our housing options over the past 70 years. Leaving the "urban" lifestyle only accessible to a few: people in the top 10% of income or those who are fine to live with roommates and share rooms well into their 40s and beyond in order to afford the expensive rents.

In my own region prices are ridiculous. I have a friend with a household income of about $170k and can't find a place to afford in the city due to being outbid by people with all cash offers for $800k plus homes!!!
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Old 12-26-2013, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,169 posts, read 29,669,595 times
Reputation: 26661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Octa View Post
I agree in regards to DC that the city has low cost housing in the NE/SE sections of the city, but on that same note, the city has the capacity to build more units. The problem is that there is a lot of resistance to doing that which is why rents are on comparable to what you'd find in the boroughs of NYC. San Francisco is also another similiar city with a similar story: NYC rents, not as dense as NYC, resistance to building.
To chime in on the Bay Area, not only is SF averse to building, we have limits centralized job centers and most nearby communities are development averse. Unlike other regions where you can trade a bit and still find resonantly priced housing with fairly tolerable commutes, we have nearly end to end expensive housing, even in the hood. And most of the affordable places in the hood or the exurbs offer horrible commutes and no transit.

One of the cheaper neighborhoods in San Francisco is rising in popularity, but it takes over an hour on transit to connect with downtown. Communities across the bay have shorter trips to downtown than places I the city limits.

At least in NYC and DC, you still have options that are reasonably close and offer good amenities, particularly for families.
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Old 12-26-2013, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Camberville
12,030 posts, read 16,768,354 times
Reputation: 19758
While I prefer to have a bedroom with a door that can shut (cats, you see), I otherwise see no problem with these small apartments. Is it really a better quality of life to live with roommates? I live in an urban area where it's common to live with roommates until you're in your 30s because of how expensive rent is. As an introvert, living with roommates (albeit other introverts) is inherently very stressful. We rarely leave our rooms and I notice that my roommates do most of their "cooking" via microwave because it feels a little awkward to stand around in the kitchen to actually prepare a meal. Those micro-apartments look like they have more storage than I currently have in my apartment because when you cram 2, 3, or more people's separate lives together in one apartment with very small bedrooms and closets, space is at a premium.

Why are people OK with many roommates but balk at the idea of independent living arrangements - albeit in smaller spaces?
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Old 12-26-2013, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,169 posts, read 29,669,595 times
Reputation: 26661
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
While I prefer to have a bedroom with a door that can shut (cats, you see), I otherwise see no problem with these small apartments. Is it really a better quality of life to live with roommates? I live in an urban area where it's common to live with roommates until you're in your 30s because of how expensive rent is. As an introvert, living with roommates (albeit other introverts) is inherently very stressful. We rarely leave our rooms and I notice that my roommates do most of their "cooking" via microwave because it feels a little awkward to stand around in the kitchen to actually prepare a meal. Those micro-apartments look like they have more storage than I currently have in my apartment because when you cram 2, 3, or more people's separate lives together in one apartment with very small bedrooms and closets, space is at a premium.

Why are people OK with many roommates but balk at the idea of independent living arrangements - albeit in smaller spaces?
I am extroverted and find roommates stressful. I'd rather control my own space than even live in a super posh mansion and share space.

I live to have my own space and privacy when I want it, and I imagine many people prefer the same as well.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:22 PM
 
Location: New York City
4,036 posts, read 8,939,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
I cannot comment on any city other than DC; in DC a person can find affordable housing. Sure, low cost is probably going to be near or in some ghetto area, but it still in the DC area, and reasonable to commute to work.

Problem in DC is, no on wants to live near or in the ghetto areas, and everyone actually wants to live in the few trendy areas, this is why an apartment in Clarendon (little trendy area of Arlington) goes for what it does.

This still does not answer the issue regarding house prices. All this is doing is maintianing the same price per square foot, but reducing the square footage; what happens when those prices become unafforable? Studios were already introduced as "affordable" in many areas, and these have now become out of reach for many people.

If the core of the problem, housing prices, is not addressed, these micro apartments are just going to become unaffordable like the studio and one bedrooms are now.
If people started moving into the ghetto areas there would be cries of gentrification and displacement.

What is the “core housing problem” if not supply and demand? Micro apartments are all about increasing supply to meet demand. I think a lot of people react emotionally (even symbolically) to these apartments even though they’re unlikely to ever affect them personally. They are not a general solution to the issue of housing costs in the country as a whole.

For me, a single gay artist in New York, they’re ideal. I certainly don’t think they’re a viable solution for most people, but they should be built in limited areas where the need exists.
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:36 PM
 
Location: USA
6,226 posts, read 5,360,581 times
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I live in a rented room the size of a walk-in closet. The reality is communities don't want affordable housing since it brings the "undesirables" in.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:33 AM
 
9,520 posts, read 14,830,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
For me, a single gay artist in New York, they’re ideal. I certainly don’t think they’re a viable solution for most people, but they should be built in limited areas where the need exists.
Do you have another space to do your art? Because it seems to me a major problem with these micro-apartments is there isn't any place for vocation or avocation. My wife's studio in our house is almost as big as those micro-apartments, and there's other storage space in the house.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:38 AM
 
Location: New York City
4,036 posts, read 8,939,859 times
Reputation: 3703
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler View Post
Do you have another space to do your art? Because it seems to me a major problem with these micro-apartments is there isn't any place for vocation or avocation. My wife's studio in our house is almost as big as those micro-apartments, and there's other storage space in the house.
I’m a composer, not a visual artist. Yes, I have a grand piano at my parent’s house in another state that I wish I could have with me, but it’s not possible. I make do with my laptop and a small keyboard. It’s not ideal, but it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make. I also love to cook and entertain. I’d love to have an apartment with a dining room where I could host friends for dinner, but I can’t have that either.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:29 AM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,635,987 times
Reputation: 1035
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpk-nyc View Post
If people started moving into the ghetto areas there would be cries of gentrification and displacement.

What is the “core housing problem” if not supply and demand? Micro apartments are all about increasing supply to meet demand. I think a lot of people react emotionally (even symbolically) to these apartments even though they’re unlikely to ever affect them personally. They are not a general solution to the issue of housing costs in the country as a whole.

For me, a single gay artist in New York, they’re ideal. I certainly don’t think they’re a viable solution for most people, but they should be built in limited areas where the need exists.
Please see the link I posted a page or two back. Affordable housing in the US is much more than just supply/demand, it's a structural issue that can be resolved through different policies.

And caring about the effects of micro apartments is so much more than how it relates to us personally. For a lot of us, we care about things such as affordable housing, poverty, and health/safety and want to discuss the ramifications of such things. Your characterization of "cries" in the "ghetto areas" about displacement speak volumes to how we think of the urban poor as second class citizens and we've been waging war on them for the past 30 years. San Francisco was just in the news the other week about a rich techie telling the low and middle income residents who were protesting price increases in the city that it's a luxury that they(the urban poor) can even live among the techies. Now imagine what would happen in 10-15 years if politicians thought these micro apartments are an even cheaper way to pack low income residents into a building(inclusionary or not) as a market solution in urban areas such as NYC or Boston.
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