U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-26-2013, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
2,975 posts, read 4,101,824 times
Reputation: 1213

Advertisements

Enclosed malls are not themselves fundamentally car-dependant and suburban, it's just that in the US they tend to be built in car-dependant, suburban areas (not surprising since it's what the vast majority of land footprint American cities consist of). In Asia, the malls often serve as "anchors" for the adjacent street businesses and markets, and are often mass transit hubs and have parking garages in the back instead of huge ugly surface lots. The local businesses actually seem to benefit from having the mall down the road.

Any national brand-name store, it doesn't have any more or less character if it's in an enclosed mall or a strip mall or a urban shopping district. It's the small local businesses that add character. Too many up-and-coming urban districts and new open-air malls end up having the same national brands.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-26-2013, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,353,423 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatsbyGatz View Post
Shopping malls are very convenient. Places that people go to at least once a week such as grocery stores, pharmacies, restaurants, coffee shops, and bars belong in downtowns and along highways. People go to retail stores for specific reasons like shopping for birthdays, holidays, or looking to expand one's wardrobe. For this reason, retail stores should be centralized into one location for the sake of convenience.

When I'm Christmas shopping, I need to go to multiple retail stores. When I'm looking for new pants or shoes, I like to visit multiple stores to find the right fit. A shopping mall is much prefered over stores randomly scattered throughout an urban area. Urban neighborhoods benefit more from restaurants or bakeries than from a shoe store or retail shop.
I think supermarkets, pharmacies, restaurants, cafes.etc also work well in malls. In Asia malls have absolutely everything, it's impressive.

Yes, although I found American downtowns lacking in retail outlets. In Australia the city is packed with all kinds of stores, both on the street and in malls, which I liked. In most American cities I'm wondering where the central shopping district is, because we're used to it being full of shops. Same with in Europe. There are more retail shops in a small city in Italy or the UK than in downtown LA, a city of many millions! America should be ashamed of it's retail in it's cities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2013, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,353,423 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992 View Post
Enclosed malls are not themselves fundamentally car-dependant and suburban, it's just that in the US they tend to be built in car-dependant, suburban areas (not surprising since it's what the vast majority of land footprint American cities consist of). In Asia, the malls often serve as "anchors" for the adjacent street businesses and markets, and are often mass transit hubs and have parking garages in the back instead of huge ugly surface lots. The local businesses actually seem to benefit from having the mall down the road.

Any national brand-name store, it doesn't have any more or less character if it's in an enclosed mall or a strip mall or a urban shopping district. It's the small local businesses that add character. Too many up-and-coming urban districts and new open-air malls end up having the same national brands.
This. Singapore, one of the least car-dependent nations on earth, is also one of the most mall-dominated, with literally over a hundred decent sized malls, many anchored around the MRT stations. Mall culture is a big part of life in Singapore, with it's year round heat and humidity, and trust me you'll want to be in them during the heat of the day.

It's no surprise that malls still thrive in the tropical Asian countries (Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines), or cold places (Minnesota, Canada).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-27-2013, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,170 posts, read 29,842,215 times
Reputation: 26692
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
I think supermarkets, pharmacies, restaurants, cafes.etc also work well in malls. In Asia malls have absolutely everything, it's impressive.

Yes, although I found American downtowns lacking in retail outlets. In Australia the city is packed with all kinds of stores, both on the street and in malls, which I liked. In most American cities I'm wondering where the central shopping district is, because we're used to it being full of shops. Same with in Europe. There are more retail shops in a small city in Italy or the UK than in downtown LA, a city of many millions! America should be ashamed of it's retail in it's cities.
Well for example, in my city downtown has very little retail, a symptom of the way we devised in downtown 50-60 years ago, and they are just starting to recover. On the flip side there are about 8 fully stocked communist districts, main streets if you will that serve as a downtown for the nearby neighborhoods. We have 4 within 3 mikes of downtown, but outside if the central business district. There is also a busy Chinatown not in the main drags of downtown.

LA is the same way, in fact Oakland and LA have quite a lot in common in terms of neighborhood layout and architecture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-27-2013, 04:42 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,353,423 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Well for example, in my city downtown has very little retail, a symptom of the way we devised in downtown 50-60 years ago, and they are just starting to recover. On the flip side there are about 8 fully stocked communist districts, main streets if you will that serve as a downtown for the nearby neighborhoods. We have 4 within 3 mikes of downtown, but outside if the central business district. There is also a busy Chinatown not in the main drags of downtown.

LA is the same way, in fact Oakland and LA have quite a lot in common in terms of neighborhood layout and architecture.
Yeah I used to think cities couldn't get much more boring than Australian cities, but in comparison they're more interesting than most American ones. I'm glad that our planners at least retained a strong central core/downtown/CBD. LA is very multi-nodal, but even Boston's downtown isn't as packed with retail as you'd expect.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-27-2013, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,170 posts, read 29,842,215 times
Reputation: 26692
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Yeah I used to think cities couldn't get much more boring than Australian cities, but in comparison they're more interesting than most American ones. I'm glad that our planners at least retained a strong central core/downtown/CBD. LA is very multi-nodal, but even Boston's downtown isn't as packed with retail as you'd expect.
Wow that post was autocorrect central! Anyway, I live about 1.5 miles from Oakland downtown, which is becoming a bar and nightlife hotspot. But the only retail is Sears, a few jewelry stores, a local boutiue with Oakland branded gear, a couple of home and clothing boutiques, and a couple of jewelry stores. And then the transitional neighborhood retail of cell phone shops, marijuana dispensaries and the smoke shop. Chinatown has everything and is quite busy.

But 1/2 mile away is my neighborhood's main street that has an independent grocery, 50 restaurants/cafes/bars including japanese, italian, greek, ethiopian, chinese, mexican, burgers, pizza, and more. One even has a Michelin star. A few yoga studios and independent gyms, a drug store, a few dry cleaners, comic book store, a couple of indie bookstores, magazine shop, yarn store, fabric store, home boutiques, consignment shops, fashion boutiques and more. Honestly I couldn't really ask for much more in such close proximity. I don't need to go downtown, and many of my neighbors don't but downtown is trying to cater to my demographic: young, "hip" urban dweller who likes good food and drinks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-27-2013, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,353,423 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Wow that post was autocorrect central! Anyway, I live about 1.5 miles from Oakland downtown, which is becoming a bar and nightlife hotspot. But the only retail is Sears, a few jewelry stores, a local boutiue with Oakland branded gear, a couple of home and clothing boutiques, and a couple of jewelry stores. And then the transitional neighborhood retail of cell phone shops, marijuana dispensaries and the smoke shop. Chinatown has everything and is quite busy.

But 1/2 mile away is my neighborhood's main street that has an independent grocery, 50 restaurants/cafes/bars including japanese, italian, greek, ethiopian, chinese, mexican, burgers, pizza, and more. One even has a Michelin star. A few yoga studios and independent gyms, a drug store, a few dry cleaners, comic book store, a couple of indie bookstores, magazine shop, yarn store, fabric store, home boutiques, consignment shops, fashion boutiques and more. Honestly I couldn't really ask for much more in such close proximity. I don't need to go downtown, and many of my neighbors don't but downtown is trying to cater to my demographic: young, "hip" urban dweller who likes good food and drinks.
Yeah I think things in America cities aren't as concentrated downtown, they're more all over the place. Only in NYC did I see the type of shopping crowds I see in Europe or Asia.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-27-2013, 07:13 PM
 
Location: bend oregon
932 posts, read 851,535 times
Reputation: 351
i dont like enclosed malls. they close for the night and it becomes wasted space, theres no bars to listen to music and relax. but its nice to be in a huge building sometimes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-27-2013, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,353,423 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by drum bro View Post
i dont like enclosed malls. they close for the night and it becomes wasted space, theres no bars to listen to music and relax. but its nice to be in a huge building sometimes
There are some malls here that have bars/clubs/late night diners that open late, that's not an uncommon thing in Asia.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-28-2013, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Katy-zuela
4,868 posts, read 9,034,431 times
Reputation: 2383
[quote=The Postman;32760866]I'm glad that our planners at least retained a strong central core/downtown/CBD./QUOTE]
Houston has a strong Downtown for weekdays. It still is an employment center along with the edge cities that have popped up over the past 40 years (namely around the Galleria Mall and to a lesser extent Greenway Plaza). The commuter buses funnel at least a 1/3 of workers in and out every day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Anyway, I live about 1.5 miles from Oakland downtown, which is becoming a bar and nightlife hotspot. But the only retail is Sears, a few jewelry stores, a local boutiue with Oakland branded gear, a couple of home and clothing boutiques, and a couple of jewelry stores.
How much can that be attributed to better shopping a short BART ride away to Market Street and Union Square in San Francisco? It's commonly stated that the ride takes 10 minutes to cross the bay from Downtown Oakland to the three stops on Market Street. Union Station is about a 5 minute walk from the second BART stop.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top