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Old 02-04-2014, 03:13 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,028 posts, read 102,689,903 times
Reputation: 33083

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Yes, the city proper provides its own services, but so does every other muncipality, with their own library system. What makes the services of the biggest city of the metro area so "special" and different from the rest that it's enough to divide a metro into city vs suburbs just by the biggest municipality?

Do you really have to ask that question? The Denver Public Library, to carry out this example, has a large collection of rare and valuable books about western history. It has a function other than just being a place you go to find a good fiction book to read. It's a research library. It also has many more books on every subject than what you'll find at the Louisville Public Library, which is a favorite place of mine, nevertheless.

http://denverlibrary.org/
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/
Biography
Colorado Railroad Photographs
Colorado Territory
Denver Buildings, Neighborhoods & Communities
Genealogy
10th Mountain Division and Military
Western Mining

Photographs
Western Art Collection
Building Plans and Drawings
Maps
Western History Subject Index

http://www.louisville-library.org/

Compare.



Perhaps they are using the NYC/Philly definition, not sure why that wouldn't work with most posts. Many of the old cities outside the biggest cities suffer school issues, while some of the schools in the "big city" are decent.

But why do you pick examples that obviously silly? Any statement about "no public transit" and "no cultural facilities" is easily disproven, since a place having none of those whatsoever is unlikely. Perhaps it's hyperbole and the poster meant "less" or the poster just isn't thinking. Discussing those sort of posts aren't going to lead much interesting discussion, I ignore them. Plenty of posters don't, I don't understand why people respond that much or focus their attention on posts like that.
Why are my examples "silly", a term I find insulting when used in this context, e.g. that my argument is silly? We see such statements almost every day on this forum. Some actually believe them. And even if they are hyperbole, is that sort of hyperbole OK, but it's not OK to say "the cities are full of tenements"? Seems to be the case on this forum. You'll get called out on the latter, but not the former (usually).

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 02-04-2014 at 03:26 PM..
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:19 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,037,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Why are my examples "silly", a term I find insulting when used in this context, e.g. that my argument is silly? We see such statements almost every day on this forum.
Those statements are silly and a bit extreme. There are plenty of non-silly and non-extreme posts, why not use them as an example?
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:37 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,028 posts, read 102,689,903 times
Reputation: 33083
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Those statements are silly and a bit extreme. There are plenty of non-silly and non-extreme posts, why not use them as an example?
Well, when you read dreck like this, it's clear that many people on this forum have a very perverted view of suburbs: (All taken from this very thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pantin23 View Post
I would say that there are actually 4-5 types of suburbs
-Streetcar suburbs (Victorian Era-WWI) which are usually inside of the city, and usually built up by WWI usually built in Victorian (Queen Anne) styles, in some cases, they are within walking distance of the city center
-interwar suburbs (1920s suburbs), suburbs of this interwar period usually built in Colonial, and Bungalow styles, could still be in the city, but more around the edge
-Post WWII suburbs (1940s-70s) these tend to share some characteristics of the prior and following suburbs. They are either laid out on a grid, or on a sort of curvy road grid (not quite cul-de-sacs yet). usually they tend to be mass produced ranchers, or cape cods. These suburbs tend to show some decline in recent years, as their commercial areas (usually strip malls) empty out. Lastly, they are usually completely out of the city except for some places such as Dallas, Houston, Charlotte
-Postmodern Suburbs (1970-) These are what most people would think of as a modern suburb (at least before the recession), usually laid out in a sort of jumbled network of cul-de-sacs, Shopping malls, office parks, etc. The houses tend to be a sort of discombobulated jumble of add-ons and wings with low quality construction (McMansions). They also lack almost any transit at all except for a few cases with regional rail, or express bus services that often service the previous two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantin23 View Post
^ Probably the over corporate culture, as well as the houses that look like they were designed when the architect was drunk when at the drawing table, or using CAD .
And let's not forget, you cant walk anywhere, so it almost feels as though you're stuck in a cul-de-sac.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
In my view, “suburbia” is any region dominated by single-family houses (or possibly duplexes, in poorer or older areas) on individual lots. These could be comparatively high-density (5000 ft^2 lots) or sparse (up to 1 acre or so). There might be condos, townhouses or apartment-houses here and there, but the cultural self-identification of the community is that of single-family houses with owner-occupants.

By this definition, a place with row upon row of 9-story apartment houses isn’t suburbia, even if the area is predominantly residential. A place with shoulder-to-shoulder single family houses (which then come to resemble townhouses) also isn’t really suburban.

So in essence, suburb = frequent lawn-mowing by owner-occupants.

At the opposite extreme, once the land associated with the house exceeds around 1 acre, I’d call it exurban instead of suburban.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
"Suburb" usually means a town or development that picks and chooses what it will allow within its limits. For example: no factories allowed but gleaming corporate offices OK, no housing under $300K, no dance clubs or questionable entertainment venues. Of course there are many exceptions. Another rule of thumb is within 100 miles of center city with population below P*(100-m)/100, where P is the population of the central city, m is miles from central business district of that city. Also, a suburb may not have its own network TV station.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
Absolute hell. Like the neighborhoods in Edward Scissorhands. The houses all look the same, no unique characteristics at all. You HAVE to own a car. You drive through miles of houses to get anywhere. Cookiecutter, bland, boring, burbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
That definition reminds me of the burb I grew up in from the mid 60s to mid 70s.
https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-...ed=0CC8QxB0wAA
All the houses were built as either the 3 bedroom or 4 bedroom version of essentially the same plan by the same builder. The only options were minor ones to the facade, rooflines and whether or not the kitchen and family room were separated by a wall or open to each other. They are all definitely recognizable as essentially the same house.
For about 900K to a Million, you too can own one of these cookie cutter jewels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhereinthemiddle View Post
Stepford Wives comes to mind. Too cookie cutter and creepy for me.
Now none of these comments were labeled "silly" or "irrelevant" as some of mine were.
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:19 PM
 
Location: City of Angels
46 posts, read 51,888 times
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It really seems like some of these people have never been to the suburbs...

I see benefits to urban, suburban and even to some extents rural living. I think deciding which facets of each is most important to you and finding a community that blends those elements is key. To me, saying "urban is bad" or "suburban is bad" is shortsighted, ignoring the seemingly millions of variations that make a community what it is.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:11 PM
 
284 posts, read 508,174 times
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i love the suburbs. idk why people are so against it these days.

Houston,TX= suburbia city
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Mt. Airy
5,311 posts, read 5,339,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toomanymiles View Post
It really seems like some of these people have never been to the suburbs...

I see benefits to urban, suburban and even to some extents rural living. I think deciding which facets of each is most important to you and finding a community that blends those elements is key. To me, saying "urban is bad" or "suburban is bad" is shortsighted, ignoring the seemingly millions of variations that make a community what it is.
Please pack up your thoughtful and reasonable post and move on along. There is no room for this kind of level-headed response on City-Data.

All joking aside, I'm not sure why these discussions don't focus more on characteristics and less on labeling. There are plenty of suburbs that lack walkable infrastructure and have zoning that make mixed-use impossible. However, there are others that have better walkable neighborhoods in the suburbs than the city itself (especially cities that saw a lot of urban renewal, or some of the newer cities with 9-5 downtowns and lots of highways).

IMO, suburb typically means an area adjacent to, or near, a larger city. Suburban development points to lower density environments, usually with single family homes.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:41 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,028 posts, read 102,689,903 times
Reputation: 33083
^^I agree with the first sentence in your last paragraph. The second, not so much.
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Old 02-05-2014, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Richmond/Philadelphia/Brooklyn
1,263 posts, read 1,274,815 times
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Honestly, I'm pretty sure most of these delusional people who think the suburbs are more diverse than the inner cities live in places like Houston, or Phoenix, where this may be the case, because of urban renewal, or not much of a city being there in the first place. Honestly, I think these people need to see suburban New Jersey, or outer long Island, and then compare it with about any non hood part of NYC, or compare anywhere in the suburbs to the fan here in Richmond. I can say from FIRST HAND experience that there is a clear line pertaining to things such as community, cultural quality, walk ability, etc.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:03 PM
 
2,388 posts, read 2,958,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantin23 View Post
Honestly, I'm pretty sure most of these delusional people who think the suburbs are more diverse than the inner cities live in places like Houston, or Phoenix, where this may be the case, because of urban renewal, or not much of a city being there in the first place. Honestly, I think these people need to see suburban New Jersey, or outer long Island, and then compare it with about any non hood part of NYC, or compare anywhere in the suburbs to the fan here in Richmond. I can say from FIRST HAND experience that there is a clear line pertaining to things such as community, cultural quality, walk ability, etc.
Most immigrants have been moving straight to the suburbs (bypassing cities) for at least the last decade - probably more in the realm of 15-20 years. There's been a lot written about it of late.

The New York suburbs - especially North Jersey - are incredibly diverse. Not all of the places are suburban in character. Places like Jersey City, West New York, Guttenberg, etc. are well known for their large Asian and Cuban populations. Edison is a town in Middlesex County that no one would mistake for being urban and it's 50% South Asian. Other towns in Essex County are well known for their large Caribbean populations, Patterson for its large arab population, etc.

Again, some of these places are urban towns in suburban counties and some of them aren't. In either case they're surrounded by distinctly suburban towns.

The same features exist in the suburbs of DC, Philly, Boston, Chicago, LA, SF, etc.

You have to get pretty far out from the center before you start to get to places that are +80% white.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:10 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,037,172 times
Reputation: 14811
Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
Most immigrants have been moving straight to the suburbs (bypassing cities) for at least the last decade - probably more in the realm of 15-20 years. There's been a lot written about it of late.

The New York suburbs - especially North Jersey - are incredibly diverse. Not all of the places are suburban in character. Places like Jersey City, West New York, Guttenberg, etc. are well known for their large Asian and Cuban populations. Edison is a town in Middlesex County that no one would mistake for being urban and it's 50% South Asian. Other towns in Essex County are well known for their large Caribbean populations, Patterson for its large arab population, etc.
I wouldn't consider the North Jersey locations you listed as "suburbs" (except for Edison), they're old, often post-industrial cities. See my post here:

What does "suburb" mean to you?
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